Columbia Southern University

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Scott Henley, Jul 17, 2008.

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  1. Scott Henley

    Scott Henley New Member

    Another CV crossed my desk, this time it is a Ph.D. from Columbia Southern University. Any insights on this school? It doesn't appear to be RA, but it does have DETC. From a Canadian perspective, I think RA is the only thing that equates to provincial accreditation here.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. macattack

    macattack New Member

    When did they offer a PhD? The only Doctorate they currently offer is the DBA.
     
  3. Scott Henley

    Scott Henley New Member

    CV shows Ph.D. in B.A., 1998.
     
  4. macattack

    macattack New Member

    Ok. They were not accredited by DETC until 2001.
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Columbia Southern University offered doctoral degrees until its application for accreditation to DETC. In order to pursue such accreditation, it was required to drop them.

    DETC recently expanded its scope to include some doctoral degrees, but not the Ph.D.

    Columbia Southern University has begun to offer the Doctor of Business Administration degree, but has not yet graduated any students.

    Holders of doctoral degrees from CSU are, by definition, holders of degrees from an unaccredited school.

    CSU used to claim "accreditation" from the unrecognized and illegitimate World Association of Universities and Colleges. This was a very deceptive practice--fooling potential applicants that the school was accredited when it was not. DETC chose to ignore this violation of their own accreditation standards.

    It appears they also claimed, for a time, accreditation from the equally dreadful ACI.
     
  6. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    CSU was founded as the University of Environmental Sciences, in Fairhope, Alabama. They subsequently changed their name, moved to Pensacola, Florida and now back to Alabama.

    Before their DETC accreditation, they had claimed accreditation from three unrecognized and dreadful accreditors: WAUC, APICS, and ACI. As has often been noted (and lamented), such things don't seem to bother DETC.
     
  7. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    John, Rich, don't be too hard on the DETC. After all if a juvenile delinquent decided to pull up his pants, cut his hair and get a job wouldn't we all applaud the turnaround?

    Why not the same for colleges that decide to clean up their act? Personally I'm glad the DETC is there to give a school a shot at legitimacy.

    As an aside, have you seen the WAUC's website recently? It reads like an ad for an online flea market offering 2nd hand educational services. Terrible stuff... My personal favorite is the new WAUC seal of accreditation for graduates to stick on their diplomas. I wonder if I can write the Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools and get a seal for my diploma? Now THAT would look official.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2008
  8. Vincey37

    Vincey37 New Member

    What is this statement supposed to mean?

    From a legal standpoint in the US? It would be incorrect, NA and RA are both equally recognized by the federal government.

    From a legal standpoint in Canada? I wasn't aware the Canadian government officially recognized foreign accreditors.

    From an evaluation standpoint? I think most credential evaluation agencies would choose to equate a NA degree to a Canadian provincially accredited degree.
     
  9. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Boy, you read my mind Vincey. Took the words right out of my mouth! :)



    Abner
     
  10. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Others have already answered that better than I could. It's an unaccredited Ph.D. That might be grounds for rejecting it right there. There are a very small handful of unaccredited schools that are academically valuable, but I'm willing to bet that the pre-DETC Columbia Southern wasn't one of them. If you're still curious, you might want to do some Google searches for signs of intellectual life in the subject of the Ph.D. Look for scholarly publications, recognition from the academic and professional communities, collaborations, stuff like that. No university that awards legitimate Ph.D.s operates in a total vacuum.
    Certainly with provincially chartered universities that are members of the Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada (AUCC).

    There are a few low-end provincially chartered things that I'm less sure about. Some of the Bible colleges for example, or the Lansbridge episode that got some press in Canada. Of course, I'm not always entirely confident about the low-end of RA either. This rather murky zone is where most of the DETC schools congregate.

    My source on what Canadian higher education consists of is the thoroughly excellent CICIC listing:

    http://www.cicic.ca/664/post-sec.aspx?sortcode=2.16.22&s=1
     
  11. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    Ask to see the dissertation :)

    Shawn
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Who's being "hard"? They're just facts.
    Perhaps it bears repeating: one of DETC's standards for accrediting a school is that the school doesn't engage in deceptive practices. IIRC, CSU claimed bogus accreditation right up until the day DETC accredited it. And if such accreditation had any meaning besides deception, why did the school drop it? Why not maintain such a "wonderful" distinction?
     
  13. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Well Rich I suppose that's where we differ, in the definition of deceptive practices. I remember at one time reading over the WAUC's website which stated clearly that the WAUC was not recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and after looking at it today they still do.

    A quote from their website:

    “Is WAUC recognized by the U.S. Department of Education?
    The organization has worked toward recognition for the past five years. However, current laws in the U.S.A. prohibit the recognition of global accreditation associations. WAUC is recognized by the Association Internationale Des Educateurs Pour La Paix Mondiale, which is affiliated with UNESCO and UNICEF. Also, all of the WAUC schools are recognized by various governments and agencies around the world.”

    So though it can be confusing and even smack of being somewhat misleading I think the definition of deceptive practices would be in effect the school or WAUC directly misrepresenting the facts, which in this case they do not.

    Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not sticking up for the WAUC and I do think that they cause a lot of damage to higher education, specifically distance education, but at no point do they outright lie about who they are or what they do. Instead they murk up the water a bit.

    To me, deceptive practices mean either A.) Deliberately misleading (e.g. a lie) and/or B.) Conducting oneself in an illegal manner.

    But maybe the thing to do is contact the DETC and just outright ask them?
     
  14. Scott Henley

    Scott Henley New Member

    I don't think so. Only RA schools in the U.S. are recognised in Canada. In order for a school to be recognised as a university in Canada, it has to have a provincial charter (act of legislature).
     
  15. Scott Henley

    Scott Henley New Member

    So how would a Ph.D. granted in 1998 be recognised? Not at all I assume? Would it be illegal?
     
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Illegality comes from usage, not purchasing. So that would vary by jurisdiction.
     
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You either don't get it or don't want to get it. WAUC is a blatant fraud. A disclaimer about they're not be ing recognized isn't sufficient. THEY DON'T PERFORM THE ACCREDITATION FUNCTION THEY CLAIM! How hard is that?

    Besides, it isn't WAUC that was being deceptive in this case; it was the school. By claiming fake accreditation, they deceived prospective students--who don't usually understand the nuances of accreditation--into thinking they were accredited when they were not. Very simple.
     
  18. GeneralSnus

    GeneralSnus Member

    That quote seems to be deliberately misleading prospective students into thinking that the WAUC is affiliated with some type of international accrediting association. The International Association of Educators for World Peace (it sounds so much more impressive in French) has nothing to do with recognizing accrediting bodies and it's not a UN organization, though it does support the goals of the UN.

    Further, what laws in the U.S. prohibit the recognition of global accreditation associations? The Middle States Commission could certainly be considered a global accrediting association, given its worldwide reach.
     
  19. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    The WAUC was/is definitely a bogus accrediting agency. Schools which claim such accreditation, I believe, are misleading students. No disclaimer will change that.

    I wonder, does Columbia Southern have the "firewall" from its former self that some feel KWU/Warren National now has?
     
  20. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Scott,

    The Individual probably listed his or her degree as PhD instead as of DBA since in Canada the DBA is not a common degree. I have a DBA and this causes problems since employers don't know what it is.

    The reality is that from the Canadian perspective, RA or DETC are acceptable since both are recognized by the American department of Education. To be honest, I have never seen an individual applying for a teaching job in places where I have been member of the hiring committee but a DETC degree technically is acceptable. I don't think a DETC DBA could make it for a Canadian tenure track but it should be acceptable to teach as an adjunct or at the community college.
     

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