Columbia Evangelical Seminary

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Hi Russell

I don't wish to argue that CES is a degree mill. I might be interested, though, in pursuing the general issue of why there should be any evangelical schools which have no chance at accreditation. But I don't want to argue with anyone, except, of course, pretribulationalists, dispensationalists, sprinklers and infant baptizers, cessationists, women preachers,Arminians, and a few others!

 

Re: Re: REASON FOR?

 

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Understood, Bill. My list includes anyone who disagrees with me, which basically means all those who are wrong.

 

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Hi Russell:

Were I truly argumentative then I would post a response to North's comment about Pastor La Haye becoming wealthy through the profits of the Left Behind library. Probably the post would be entitled:


"Dollars Through Distance Ed and Myopic Eschatological Doctrine"

I think such a title foretells a content which decries the distancing of "students" from the financially impoverished original writers of Biblical prophecy themselves, substituting instead popular fiction ,and from as well the plethora of conflicting millennial opining even now current in evangelicalism-in other words distances the readers from facing the challenge of the possibilty that pretribulational dogma may be erroneous-and then becomes rich (were North's comment veracious) by this doubly damning design of "Distance Education."

But see, Russell, I've restrained myself!!!

 

Head's Law of Good Fiction: If the lead characters are named Buck and Hattie, it probably ain't.



Cheers,

 

It is nice to see members on this thread being careful in their comments on the academic quality of an unaccredited university. Even when referring to the utility of a CES degree talks about its "RA counterpart". Interesting.
I must be missing something here but it seems that sincerity goes a long way. Or maybe just friendship. Who knows.

Michael.

 

Just one more on CES

Well, I almost decided to go to CES once. I talke with Dr. Walston for a good hour over the phone and honed in on what it is he offers; which, by the way, explains why he heads a non-accredited seminary. Here's what I understand the purpose of the school to be.

CES is geared for a student to pick a major and a mentor--the major not necessarily one offered by CES, and the mentor either from CES or elsewhere--and then research, read and write along the lines of the major. This is the thrust, as I understood it, of CES; research, read and write. Waslton works students very hard in the area of writing papers; in research and in proper grammar and over-all presentation of the paper, theses and dissertations. (I called a current student of CES as well as a few former students and a former professor. They confirmed what I've written here.)

There's very few irrelevant courses a student must take; only those related to the major are at issue. There is flexibility in the texts and work to facilitate the study. The whole program is solidly geared towards mastering the major.

Now, that's a great idea, in my opinion, for those folks who need this kind of format. Some folks aren't naturals when it comes to learning and only want to learn what they want to learn. For this CES is to be commended. It wasn't for me, because the education isn't broad enough for my purposes, and in view of the breadth I need, I would prefer the approach of, and hence, an accredited education. (Okay, I'm even still thinking of Trinity College in Newberg--"Oh, please, NOT that," you say!--but it would be a last option. Hopefully they will have gone RA while I have attended.)

Anyway, CES may be for some folks, but it's not for others. Same-same for RA and other accredited schools.

Starkman

 

Re: Just one more on CES

 

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Re: Re: Re: REASON FOR?

Bill, you think he might give you a shot at co-authoring the next series as you both are alumni.

North

 

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An eschatological aberration like me? Right!
But am I jealous? Naaa!!

 

Re: Re: Just one more on CES

No problem, Bill. Just leave the Trinity stickers on your car until the UZ stickers arrive.

 

The Social Value of Stickers

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Just can't wait until I get my UZ sticker!

While back I and my jeep pulled into the gas station! A guy in another car walks over and says, "Oh are you in the 101st Airborne too?? (forgot to take that sticker off when I bought the Cherokee). It was was a temptation not to swagger a bit and say, "Yep sure am. " But then I tempered my impulsivity with the fear that he might want to go jumping that afternoon, and standing on a footstool is high enough for me!

But jeepers, with the Unizul sticker on the windshield just think how many here in Salem will ask at the gas station, "Oh you go to ZULULAND too???

 

Re: Walter Martin & Rick Walston

One of the differences between Walter Martin and Rick Walston is that Walston has always been very honest about his institution's and his own unaccredited degrees. Martin, on the other hand, claimed repeatedly that his California Western U. doctorate was fully accredited and was from a residential, not a correspondence school. He made the same claim of accreditation about his two bachelors degrees (both from the unacredited Shelton College).

Martin's publications also listed "degrees" from two other institutions. One turned out to be his high school (does anybody call their high school diploma a "degree"?) and another was a bibilical seminary where he attended one summer course (a different take on "BA in 4 weeks" I suppose).

This is the kind is dishonesty that Walston (and John Bear) have both decried in their writings. So I was very disappointed to receive a CES catalog and see Martin's unscholarly polemical works used as textbooks for CES graduate courses, alongside such respected scholars as F.F. Bruce, Henry Chadwick, Craig Blomberg, Bruce Shelley and C.S. Lewis.

 

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I sure do wish that CES was accredited. I think they could be, at least by DETC or TRACS. I wonder why they haven't applied? Anyway, if they were accredited by a reputable, recognized agency, I would have chosen CES over UNIZUL.

Daniel

 

Bill Grover

Your lucky in your episode with Airborn insignia. Those guys guard their symbols and (at least here) have been known to do damage to anyone wearing an airborn symbol to which he was not entitled.

The Canadian Airborne Regiment was disbanded because they kept killing people. No-one told them there was no war.

 

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I may be wrong but I think DETC is secular and that TRACS only accredits schools with a campus who also offer DL and I further think that the only doc TRACS accredits is DMin. Consequently, at this time CES would not qualify.

 

LaHaye

Bill,

I believe that Tim LaHaye's D.Min. is from the Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan, not Western Seminary in Portland, Oregon. For my money, you have the better alma mater.

Dave