City & Guilds - Engineering

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by morganplus8, Jun 20, 2005.

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  1. morganplus8

    morganplus8 New Member

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    Hi everyone!

    I haven't heard much about the C & G prospects for those trying to further their advancement in Engineering in North America. I have read every post on this site re" C & G in the past but I was wondering what has become of those who tried to advance their engineering careers via this route?

    I applied as a qualified engineer to the C & G and was given a LCGI diploma, I was also told to consider challenging for the MCGI because I hold a Masters degree as well (MBA). I was wondering what else I could do with the LCGI in the US or abroad, has anyone managed to promote themselves to a professional qualification or perhaps into a Masters of Engineering course?

    I'm looking for anything new happening at C & G!

    Thanks,
    MP
     
  2. Scott Henley

    Scott Henley New Member

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    The City and Guilds Graduateship (GCGI) in Engineering is placed at British honours degree level and may allow someone to gain entry into a British university at MSc level. However, I doubt that this would be true in North America.

    Since the LCGI, GCGI and MCGI awards are not really based on coursework, a university in North America would have not way to assess performance. For example, a GCGI does not have a GPA or other grade system that would be required for masters-entry.

    GCGI is good for someone who does not have a degree to hold a degree-level qualification, but you have to remember, it is not a degree.
     
  3. morganplus8

    morganplus8 New Member

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    That is partially true, in my case, I submitted the Canadian equivalent to them, (after having it assessed for UK comparitability using NRP) with the necessary funds and they approved me without any other requirements. A graduate school in North America will want to see my Canadian documents verses the UK equivalent, I'm sure. It was a transaction of sorts and there was no need to prove whether I had the skills or not for the title.

    I'm interested in those members who provided a Technical Report in order to obtain their LCGI/GCGI title. Did anyone advance their career or gain further education ie. Purdue University? About a year ago we had some board members who were trying to advance their education in the US using the Senior Awards they obtained from the C & G.

    I'll see whether I can enroll in an online Masters in Eng. degree program in the UK but it would be nice to learn whether others have been able to do something with their titles.

    Thanks,
    MP
     
  4. Lerner

    Lerner Active Member

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    Purdue University has listed the City & Guilds program as a recognized qualification that will allow advanced standing or academic credit. It is difficult to determine what level of acceptance this indicates without enrolling.

    See Purdue Website:


    http://www.iss.purdue.edu/Admission/UG/AppProcess/CountryRequirements/UnitedKingdom.cfm


    The US Department of Education's report called Mapping The World of Education indicated the following information about City & Guilds.

    "NOTE: The following list of vocational and professional awards includes those of the major examining bodies: the City and Guilds of London Institute (trades and professions of all types;.... Pitman Examinations Institute (secretarial studies);...these are the leading providers of vocational and professional awards. In addition, there are several hundred professional societies and associations which offer credentials deemed equivalent to educational awards. These credentials either require the prior possession of a specific educational award or may legally be substituted for it. Refer to the latest edition of British Qualifications, the official guide to all United Kingdom awards, for current information." (USDE,2000)
     
  5. Laser200

    Laser200 Guest

    City & Guilds of London Institute

    I was successful in obtaining my Graduateship diploma from City & Guilds. Indiana State University did not recognize it because it lacked a Liberal Arts component. They felt it might satisfy the needs of an employer but declined to assign credit for it.

    I would be very curious on how ABET would evaluate the programs. I believe they would approached it through a course by course review. This would defeat the principle of experienced based learning.

    The U.S. Department of Education and the National Science Foundation clearly list City & Guilds in their journal
    "Mapping the World of Education."


    http://www.angelfire.com/de3/electronicbsdegree/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2005
  6. JamesK

    JamesK New Member

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    Re: City & Guilds of London Institute

    Wouldn't the need for a liberal arts component eliminate most British (and similar systems) Engineering awards?
     
  7. Scott Henley

    Scott Henley New Member

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    They are referring to the City and Guilds of London Full Technological Certificate which is quite different from the Senior Awards of LCGI, GCGI and MCGI.

    I believe the Full Tech Cert is an coursework program unlike the Senior Awards which can be granted without coursework based on professional experience and a report.
     
  8. Laser200

    Laser200 Guest

    No credit at ISU

    I don't know but they gave me nothing for it. Of course, I was fairly far along in my education. The courses that they might give me credit for were already taken.

    I guess that might mean they could have given me lower level class credit if I already didn't have it. I really don't know what they thought.
     
  9. morganplus8

    morganplus8 New Member

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    Laser200,

    Did you find some utility for the GCGI?

    Did you enroll in the Masters Engineering program at Purdue or something similar?

    Were you able to join any professional organizations with it?

    I'm curious to see if anyone has been able to advance their career or education with the C & G award. I will be trying to see just how far I can go with this document, I have several degrees to make up the Liberal Arts component with, if it comes down to that.

    I was also wondering if an MBA will satisfy the MCGI requirement for a Masters degree? They list Masters of Eng. and "MA" as possible choices so this might be another way to move up to CEng in the UK?

    MP
     
  10. Laser200

    Laser200 Guest

    Acceptance

    I have not put the City & Guilds Graduateship program to any test beyond enrolling at ISU.

    I will be curious to see how an American employer will view it.

    I'm sure it can't hurt the resume.
     
  11. Laser200

    Laser200 Guest

  12. morganplus8

    morganplus8 New Member

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    ISU recongized the GCGI? What are you enrolled in there?

    I've been looking into the NSPE program registration for international holders of an Eng. Degree.

    Thanks,
    MP
     
  13. Laser200

    Laser200 Guest

  14. Lerner

    Lerner Active Member

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    Re: Acceptance

    Well it a foreign award and should be evaluated by NACES member evaluator.

    I'm sure WES will provide their US equivalency.

    More - actually you can have this evaluated by ABET - they refer their evaluations to aprivet agency.
    They charge more than NACES member agency but their evaluations are recignized by ABET and good for PE exam admitions.

    western Governors University representative indicated that they
    accept C&GI awards for entry in their MSIS/iT degrees.
    All they ask is evaluation by NACES agency I forgot the name but its on their web site.

    Learner
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2005
  15. morganplus8

    morganplus8 New Member

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    I went about my process in the reverse order with the submission of my Canadian credentials to the NRP-UK first, I then submitted those results to the C & G and they approved my standing as a LCGI without having to do anything else. I want to achieve CEng status and feel I can arrive at that level with their current program.

    I'm now doing what I should have done the first time around, submitting my CV and credentials to the IIE so that I can receive the proper IEng or better from them.

    C & G have mentioned to me that my UK based MBA will probably equate to the CDP equivalency and that I might qualify for a MCGI designation because of that. So just for the record here, a Masters in almost anything might meet the additional educational requirement.

    I'll have a look at ABET next to see if there is a fit there. As stated earlier, I'm going to see how far I can go with this whole program of working towards a PEng/PE/CEng status.

    MP==============================
     
  16. Laser200

    Laser200 Guest

    Morgan,

    Which country do you plan to work in?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2005
  17. morganplus8

    morganplus8 New Member

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    I quit my job as a Corporate Engineer for one of Canada's largest manufacturing distribution companies. I haven't decided where I will work next at this point. I just want to relax for a year and think through my options. Education is one area I'm fond of and might consider teaching. The other choice is consulting in which case I don't care where my credentials come from as long as they include an Engineering title on the CV.

    I have done extensive work in the U.S. and would consider something South of the border too. My options are wide open at this point.

    I haven't picked a thesis topic yet (for UNISA/DCom) and my second choice is the DBA/PhD at NCU.

    Plenty to think about over the summer! I would like to challenge for the MCGI at IIE this fall.

    That's it!
    MP
     
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Active Member

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    A friend with LCGI diploma - US AS degree equivalent was accepted in to Hawaii Pacific University.
    HPU fully recognized his LCGI award.

    American Society of Certified Engineering Technicians / Technologists recognizes the award for Certified / Registered Member status.



    Learner
     
  19. morganplus8

    morganplus8 New Member

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    Thanks for your post Learner,

    If you could tell me more about your friend, how did he acquire his LCGI and what is/was his educational background?

    I'm contacting the ASCET group on Monday to learn more about registration and additional possibilities.

    Thanks,
    MP
     
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Active Member

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    My friend grew up in another country, there he studied electtronics
    and computing from 10th grade to 12th grade and he graduated wiith high school certificate from vocational highschool.

    he joined Air force in his country and studied as a cadet almost for a year ( 13th grade ) he was qualified as a Technician in telecom systems, later in the military he served 5 years advancing in ranks, managerial responsibilities and qualifications of technicians, he sttudied short and long term classes to get higher grade - level of technician.

    After discharge all he had was the technician - Air force diplomas and 5 years experience with letters of recommendation.

    He had taken some additional classes from open university and undergraduate certificate in micro computers .

    After that he was in the corporate high tech world, working as an Field engineer, Systems Engineer and passed many company based training, certifications etc.

    Realizing some 10 years after the discharge that the competition is harder and not having formal AS, BS degree holds him back wile on the other side he achieved a practice manager level in professional practice - consulting company.

    He applied to City and Guilds for LCGI in electronics and management.

    C&GI requested as a pass in order to be even considered o provide as an entry an NVQ 3 or equivalent education.

    My friend had to send all his educational certificates etc to NARIC
    UK, after long time he was awarded with NARIC evaluation as having NVQ3 equivalent education.

    this was sufficient for entry in to consideration for LCGI by C&GI.
    He applied and got the LCGI ( level 4 in UK - NVQ 4 as a Full Technolgical Certtiificate or Diploma).

    Later he obtained a brochure of equivalent classes for such a
    designation, he also applied to City and Guilds for Full Technological Diploma. - this is a minimum requirement for IEng by IIE UK were he is registered as IEng.

    Now he had his LCGI evaluated by NACES member agency with other certificates he applied to HPU and was accepted as mature
    entry in to two final years of Bachelors degree program.

    As far as ASCET they list on their web site the certifying awarding bodies that they recognize and City and Guilds is one of them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2006

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