cheap EDd

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by adelheid, Apr 23, 2003.

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  1. adelheid

    adelheid New Member

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    I am in the final stages of my MEd by DL, through coursework only. I enjoy this kind of learning experience, and am looking for a similar EdD by coursework only degree programme. I am only aware of Edith Cowan University (Australia) offering such kind of programme. However, their fees are a hefty US$9000 (roundabout) - which is far too much for my budget.

    Would anyone out there know of a similar programme for LESS fees?

    adelheid:)
     
  2. tcnixon

    tcnixon New Member

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    The University of South Africa is always a good bet for inexpensive, but high quality, degrees. They do offer doctorates in education.

    UNISA Faculty of Education



    Tom Nixon
     
  3. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

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    Tom's correct in saying that UNISA is a good bet for an inexpensive doctorate. However, those degrees are research degrees, not coursework degrees. I could be wrong but I don't think you'll find a doctoral degree program anywhere that is done entirely by coursework. The whole idea behind a doctorate is to add to the existing knowledge base. This means doing a dissertation. As you're looking at programs you may want to check out the EdD program at the University of Nebraska - Lincoln. It is perhaps the cheapest RA EdD program in the USA.
    Jack
     
  4. Christopher Green

    Christopher Green New Member

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    just a thought

    it sounds like you are already pretty set on the EdD. I was investigating the degree when I started this thread.

    Essentially, what I learned from this thread is unless one is shooting for a kind of liscensure (eg., shooting for a PsyD), one should probably not shoot for a doctorate in a field when there is a comparable "PhD" to it.

    in other words, some degrees are created like the EdD that create confusion because there is also a PhD in Education. When choosing between them, keep in mind that schools are changing and some degrees are being forced into a more flexible mold. I think the EdD is becoming less credible in the culture today because people naturally gravitate to the "PhD" if there is one that is comparable. If you choose a degree in a field that is not the "PhD," and a PhD is actually offered also, the PhD will always outstrip your degree, and there is no control as to how much the "non-PhD" doctorate will be watered down in the future because it doesn't have the title that the culture deems necessary to protect.

    Fortunately for you, the U. of Nebraska-Lincoln has a PhD in Education that is available via DL and does include coursework.

    Chris
     
  5. obecve

    obecve New Member

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    Frankly Chris, I am not sure what the heck you are talking about. I don't think there is a tinker's damn of a difference between an Ed.D. and a Ph.D. in Educaton and universities apparently don't think so either. I chose to earn an Ed.D. and have never regretted it! My experience has been that people simply ask if I have doctorate. When it is verfied that I do, I compete favorably. I am currently a director of a state division wih a $110 million budget, a member of the clinical medical faculty at the University of Washington School of medicine and a member of the adjunct graduate faculty of 3 other universities. I have been repeatedly offered fulltime graduate positions in major universities, but have chosen to remain in a leadership role in state government. Never...not once...has the fact that I have an Ed.D. rather than a Ph.D. come into question. The only question has been whether or not I had a doctorate. Unfortunately, I think your advise is misleading!
     
  6. PaulC

    PaulC New Member

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    I have to agree with Michael O. Three of the four faculty members on my dissertation committee were EdD not PhD. One is currently the Dean of Graduate Studies at a school in Europe and one was the former Dean of the School of Education at UMass and currently Eminent Professor of Educational Reform at Old Dominion. I think EdD works just fine in academe.
     
  7. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

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    FWIW, I also agree with Michael, even though my own doctorate is a PhD.
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Active Member

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    While there are, in some situations, differences in the approach to the dissertation--the Ed.D. is sometimes more flexible and pragmatic--there doesn't seem to be any practical difference in terms of acceptance and utility between the Ed.D. and the Ph.D.
     
  9. Christopher Green

    Christopher Green New Member

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    You may think I'm off my rocker, that's fine. I would encourage you to check out the experience I had with USC that I explained in this thread.

    Let me know what you think,

    Chris
     
  10. obecve

    obecve New Member

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    I read your thread and do not see anything that would change the infromation I offered you.

    If you are going to work in the United Staes there is no meaningful difference between th Ed.D. and The Ph.D. in education. CHeck any university's list of professors, deans, even presidents and you will see a large number of both degrees listed. Additionally, check out Teachers College at Columbia University, probably the most prestegious education college in this country, they still offer an Ed.D. I would suspect this degree would be equally accepted in any setting.

    Much of the usefulness of a degree will depend somehwat on you. How well do you present yourself? What have you published or presented? What is the quality of your work history? Finally the quality of your own dissertation and your ability to present you knowledge related to that will be very helpful.

    I think what is more important is finding a school you are comfortable with, that meets your specifc educational interests and that has professors who can support you research interests and needs. If these needs are met, you will be fine in any job search.
     
  11. Christopher Green

    Christopher Green New Member

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    Arguing from the status quo will not satisfy the response that I think is needed by the argument that i have set up.

    Just because Ed.D.'s function equally as Ph.D.'s in Education now does not guarantee they will always. The value of a degree, furthermore, is how it will contribute to one's satisfaction/vocation over time. Thus, a doctoral degree investment needs to be done with great precision.

    My experience with USC boils down to one fact: the EdD is offered through multiple venues at the same school, while the main campus alone offers the PhD. That decision alone makes the PhD more difficult to obtain.

    I argue when there are two doctoral degrees that are in the same field, and one is a PhD, the other has the possibility of deterioration, especially given the context of our information explosion.

    Given that the PhD is always preferred as the "superior" degree in the public eye, and when a school chooses to make one more difficult to obtain, the EdD has more potential for deterioration than the PhD.

    Potential for deterioration is all that I'm after as an attribute of the EdD.

    One of my advisors in graduate school is in charge of a graduate education program at a regionally accredited university. He related to me recently that he had decided to change all of the doctoral programs in education to the "PhD." Reason being, according to him, the EdD could be more open to deteriorating in the future. That is all. That does not mean it has less value inherently.

    Also, when the accreditors came in to do an audit of the program, they needed to check the EdD program to make sure it would be the equivalent of a PhD in Education. That means that an EdD could be, or at times could not be considered as the equivalent of the PhD in Education.

    Chris
     
  12. drwetsch

    drwetsch New Member

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    Chris,

    If I read you correctly you are stating that the Ed.D. will be less credible than the Ph.D. because it is more open to degrading or I would assume you mean less rigorous than the Ph.D. What hasn't been established is the basis for this claim other than you have pointed to some faculty who believe this to be true. My question is Why do they believe this?

    Thanks,

    John
     
  13. Christopher Green

    Christopher Green New Member

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    Thanks for your question, John.

    My advisor mentioned to me that the EdD was being "dumbed down" in places, so he changed the program to a PhD. His action was simple, though, because the EdD at Trinity was formerly a research degree. So he simply changed the title, and had the accreditors come "make sure" it was the equivalent.

    My argument is that the proof is in the practice. While there is little curricular difference between the EdD's that USC offers and the PhD's, the PhD is only offered in one location, the "main campus." That means, in practice, as a degree, it requires more centralized supervision. The EdD, however, is somehow flexible enough in its curriculum that it can be offered in more ways, in more places. This says, "easier degree." However, no doctoral student would ever say anything in his/her program is "easy." We all know that.

    It may also be important to mention that, while one can earn an EdD with less research than a PhD in Edu., one (probably) can never earn a PhD in Edu. with less research than an EdD.

    On top of that, it simply creates confusion to have two doctorates in the same field with two different titles. If I had the option, I don't know why I would rather go with the degree that is "not the PhD." It's not like choosing between an MA in Education and an MEd. The "PhD" has a significant cultural prestige, and when the professional degree is added to it as a companion, it automatically loses with respect to degree of credibility. That, of course, is all a matter of general perception. But this is a problem, I think, that is unique to the EdD because the PsyD includes a lisence for practice in a way that the EdD does not. The EdD, perhaps more than any other professional doctorate, is intended to compete on the same level with the PhD. IMHO I think the creation of the EdD may be a mistake.

    Chris
     
  14. obecve

    obecve New Member

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    It is reasonable for you to take whatever academic path you choose to take. I think my argument included choosing a degree that best matched your needs. Obviously perception is part of your needs. However, it is unreasonable to continue to push that perception when the current reality does not match. Functionally there is no difference. By the way it is possible to have a Ph.D. with less research than an Ed.D. In my own case, I had more research hours than many of the Ph.D. students, had a substantially longer dissertation than many of the Ph.D. students and completed more in depth and and complicated analysis than many of the Ph.D students. Again your perception was not precise. A final thought, arguing that he degree may some day diminish and therefore has less value is really not supported by your arguments. We could equally argue that it might grow in prestige. NO evidence exists in either direction. The only evidence that does exist is university hiring practices. At this point, both appear to be hired equally well. From a practitioner standpoint, take a look at how many superintendents and public school officials hold Ed.D. compared to Ph.D.

    When you get your Ph.D., I think you will find that those of us with Ed.D.'s will give you a good run for your money in the world of work! I sincerely wish you good luck in your Ph.D. search and hope you find the degree that best matches your future plans.
     
  15. Peter French

    Peter French member

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    The University of Southern Queensland have a 'thematic' EdD that one of my staff is completing. It is essentially a series of 15-20K word fully researched papers rather than a 75-85K thesis as for a PhD. It seems rigorous enough and it is making him sweat -and I like that!

    I also am aware from a commitee that I am a member of, [RA= ... sorry about that] that other EdD programs out here will follow this form, and there is already a coursework PhD from ANU but only the reduced size 'thesis' is formally assessed - the coursework is theoretically ignored - an interesting concept!

    As you may or may not be aware, we do not pay one single cent for doctoral degrees out here provided that there is a proven 67% research content - the current change is that it is realised that 'content' does not necessarily mean a 'thesis' as has been the case more or less to date. So keep signing up for our degrees as it helps fund our international travel costs as we get these paid also, and an office, and a secretary [fugly though] ...

    But this is Australia, and I am me, so why should anyone take any notice?

    And for those who do, we sent far more cavalry to Iraq per capita than US did, but then we also lost far more per capita in Bali than US did on September 11.

    Is this significant? To some of us, very much so ...

    P J French MEd
    Melbourne, Australia
    [keeping George Brown's wife happy while he is away - but don't tell him that!]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2003
  16. adelheid

    adelheid New Member

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    Re: Re: cheap EDd

    Peter, could you please explain that? That sound very interesting! I accessed ANU's website, but couldn't find any info.

    adelheid:)
     
  17. Peter French

    Peter French member

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    Re: Re: Re: cheap EDd

    I don't have the 'hidden' reference handy at the moment - it is at my office, but don't rush ... it is in one aspect of History only at this stage, and not necessarily generally available.

    However stand by, without holding your breath, and you will see some changes as <13% of those that complete a PhD out here find work in their areas, as they have narrowed their research field so much .... so there is a body of inquiry currently proceeding aimed towards reviewing the 'research thesis only' PhD requirement - Melbourne is one such place where this is being seriously looked at.

    It will not necessarily follow into all faculties, and will make more sense in applied and liberal areas rather than scientific, medical and engineering type areas. It won't become a US style doctorate, but will depart to some degree from the present model.

    The bulk of the academic workforce are older out here and where jobs have been offered rather than sort out, this is changing with the younger brigade - the 30/40 age bunch. They haven't been able to dominate research, publications, committees, professional bodies and referee panels, so we are now seeing the 'PhD' often as a preferred qualification for lectureships and senior lectureships. Add to that the new idea for splitting Federal Government research funding grants 'a la UK models', and 'teaching' based programs and even 'teaching' based schools will emerge, necessitating a large change in emphasis.

    This will be reflected in the degrees offered, and if they sell to foreigners, they will catch on fast, just as the proliferation of undergraduate content conversion Masters degrees have. If people are prepared to pay for a masters degree that is essentially our undergraduate work, we will pump them out as fast as you will buy them. We won't necessarily enroll for these degrees ... and in one of the programs I am working on at the moment, locals are not invited to apply, and in other cases are precluded from enrolling.

    I will not say more ... not everyone shares Rich Douglas' or Gus Sainz' opinion of me, and that alternative opinon that I engender, I enjoy and respect, and it keeps me employed and off the streets, except when George Brown comes to town.

    Peter French
     
  18. David Williams

    David Williams New Member

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    To borrow a Don MacLean line from The Day the Music Died, “A long, long time ago” I earned a doctorate in counseling from a department that offered both the EdD and PhD. There was very little variation in the degree requirements; I’m pretty sure the only difference was two courses, one in statistics and the other in research design. The one student in my cohort who did elect to go the EdD route did so with the idea that the EdD would serve him better given that his career field was student personnel and he believed the EdD would be more prestigious. The majority of the students, myself included, had an eye on going for psychology licensure and we did PhDs in the hope of stacking the deck in our favor.

    Chris notes that no student would ever say his program was easy which is probably so in virtually all cases although after transferring into an APA counseling psychology program I had an epiphany of sorts. I came to realize that my MSW- and psychology programs were significantly more rigorous.
     

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