Canadian teachers in the US

Discussion in 'Education, Teaching and related degrees' started by Docere, Jan 25, 2017.

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  1. Docere

    Docere Member

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    I have been told that Canadian trained teachers do get work in the US, if they pass certification exams. I am curious though if the B.Ed. degree is recognized as basically equivalent to many master's degrees in the US or do they see them as having "just a bachelor's.

    If anything the Canadian B.Ed. is probably more rigorous, especially with the new 2 year curriculum in Ontario. If you think I'm kidding compare the requirements for the BPS (for Ontario students) and MSEd. at Niagara University:

    Ontario Teacher Certification Curriculum | Niagara University

    http://www.niagara.edu/assets/Uploads/2016US-Program-Requirement-Updates-Website2.pdf
     
  2. RFValve

    RFValve Active Member

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    Canadian teaching credentials are normally recognized in the US. The main issue is that strong unions in Ontario have made salaries and conditions for teachers very high compared with American ones. Why would you want to go the US? Some teachers in Ontario are making 100K plus teaching kinder garden or second grade with so many benefits such as banked sick days, job protection, etc. In the US, it is quite normal to make 30K as a elementary or kinder garden teacher with less benefits and lower job security.
    In few words, you will not see many Ontario teachers leaving to the US. The other issue is immigration, you can work in the US under a work TN Visa but there is no security that this visa will be renewed after it expires (normally every 3 years). A Trump administration might change the rules and send back all the Canadians that are stealing jobs from Americans after these visas expire. In few words, the risk of getting your visa denied or not renewed is high under a protectionist government so not the best time to move in my opinion.
     
  3. Docere

    Docere Member

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    Good question.

    I am completing my Ph.D. in Toronto. I am Canadian, my wife is US citizen/Canadian permanent resident. I may look for work in the US as well as Canada. We'd prefer to stay in Canada (esp. with Trump in the WH) but we want to have options in the US.

    It's very hard to find permanent work for teachers in Ontario but yes they have it much better than US teachers for the most part (even with mere "Bachelor of Education" degrees).
     
  4. RFValve

    RFValve Active Member

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    Even with an American spouse, there is risk that work permits become very hard to get in my opinion. Trump will start going after TN work permits at some point as this is an easy way to make more jobs available to Americans so the wages go higher.
    If you have a PhD, you might qualify for a green card under EB1A or EB2-NIW categories that do not require a sponsor. I would apply for this visa before going there, if you get a green card it is unlikely that Trump can revoke them but he can revoke TN Visas in a day if he wants.
     
  5. Docere

    Docere Member

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    Still curious to know whether the Canadian B.Ed.'s are treated as "just a bachelor's" in those districts/states with the master's salary bump.
     
  6. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

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    And why would the B.Ed. be treated as anything other than a bachelor's?
     
  7. Docere

    Docere Member

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    The name is deceiving, like the LL.B. (Canadian lawyers got the LL.B. until recently even though it was pretty much identical to the American J.D.)

    It is a second-entry degree in Canada, for the most part (or a "combined degree" that requires 5-6 years of university).

    Canadian teacher graduates at Niagara University wear the same garb as masters students at the graduation ceremony, even though they are given a BPS degree.
     
  8. novadar

    novadar New Member

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    Wow. I am surprised but at the same time not overly surprised.
     
  9. Docere

    Docere Member

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    Yeah, things are generally better for teachers north of the border, "inferior" degrees aside.
     
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Active Member

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    I used to have a girl friend in the US working for a school board in Ohio. She told me that salaries were based on the level of education, the maximum was a MA + 30 credits. She completed a MA and then EDS in order to reach the maximum. Two bachelors degrees do not equal an MA.
    More info below:
    https://www.ohea.org/salary-columns

    If you are planning to apply to any US education related job with your canadian education, you will most likely need a WES report. Most of the time, degrees are equivalent based on their level (e.g. a Canadian BS is equal to an American BS).

    In some places in Canada, the teaching credential requires a BS degree as admission and an extra year of work that normally leads to a BEd. However, it is highly unlikely that this BEd would be considered an MEd in the US just because is after a degree. The level is still at the bachelors level. However, if WES says that your BEd is equal to a MEd in the US, an employer will go with the WES report but this is not very likely.

    This reminds to some Mexican and European graduates that write MS in their resume because their degrees are 5 year degrees and automatically think that they deserve to be called MS for the extra year but in fact these degrees are normally evaluated as the equivalent to a BS degree in Canada because they are first degrees and not post graduate degrees even if they take longer to complete.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2017
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Active Member

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    Increasing number of Hamilton teachers making more than $100K - Latest Hamilton news - CBC Hamilton

    I had a girl friend in the Hamilton area that is a kinder garden teacher, she was making about 80K back in 2003 with only 5 years experience. Most reach 100K range when they get close to retirement. Pensions are very generous too, most retire with about 70% of their last salary.

    My GF in Ohio was only making 40K with a Masters degree in Ohio, I then realized that salary conditions were very different. Also, my GF in Hamilton told me that they could bank sick days not taken and some could retire even few years earlier if they don't get sick. They also have pedagogical days and some other benefits.

    There are many complaints from Ontario citizens that these people are overpaid, the cost of education is very high and the quality is still not that great. Teachers normally say that they need the extra money because the stress of having to deal with parents and children with issues.
     
  12. Docere

    Docere Member

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    I guess it works both ways. Ontario doesn't consider an MSED from Buffalo universities to be a real masters degree.
     
  13. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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    Agreed - you won't. And before a bunch of American teachers decide to try the Canadian gravy train, let me remind you $100,000 Canadian is currently around $75,000 American. And I think that in quite a few places in the US, $75K will buy more / better food & material goods (including real estate) than $100K Cdn. will, here in Canada. (And yes, a couple of years back the $C briefly flirted with par but -- not now and not in the foreseeable.)

    Not saying that $75,000 US or $100K Cdn. is chump change -- just sayin'.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2017
  14. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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    These sick days have most often led to a big payday at retirement - $50K or more, from what I hear. I read the Provincial Government has been working overtime to legislate the bulk of these banked sick days (including those already earned) off the table, so nobody should count on them.

    J.
     
  15. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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    I'm behind the times. The Ontario Government took banking of sick days away years ago. Net effect: As teachers can no longer bank sick days, they USE them - and it costs $1 billion a year.

    Ontario teachers’ sick days shot up in 2015, costing school boards nearly $1B: report | National Post

    J.
     
  16. Docere

    Docere Member

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  17. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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    And if, after all this, some American teachers are thinking of relocating in Ontario, some more cautionary news. $100K is a long way up the grid. Yes, it's possible to get there as an elementary or HS teacher, but it takes a long time. Only a very small percentage of elementary teachers get there. Here's some proof.

    In Ontario, a list of the names and salaries of all workers in the Public Sector who earn $100,000 or more is published annually. It's popularly called "The Sunshine List." I examined the section dealing with employees of one school board. Number of employees earning $100K plus, about 150. Of these, only two were elementary school teachers. The 100K teachers of early grades exist - but they're outliers. And I don't know why some say there shouldn't be any 100K people teaching early grades. They're the ones who teach kids the fundamentals - including reading. And what part of education is more important than that? Well, enough of me. See for yourself.

    Hundreds of local people make the annual $100K sunshine list | Chatham Voice

    The section on School Board employees is about 1/3 of the way down.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2017
  18. Docere

    Docere Member

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    I agree that people shouldn't "up" the title of their degree on their resumes.

    But the argument about how it's unfair to the true holders of masters degrees would make much more sense if most of these programs were particularly rigorous. And the US is a worse offender than Canada and Western Europe in terms of degree inflation.

    Some of the American colleges (not Niagara U.) actually try to attract Canadians by saying you can study with us and get a graduate degree rather than a B.Ed. Technically true, but misleading.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2017
  19. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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    The P.T. Barnum institute? Yes, one born every minute... These people are quite likely to end up with "degree + no job." Kind of like law school. For some reason, Canadian Teachers' Colleges are full to bursting, so those who don't get admitted go to US, Australia, UK ... but when they come back with their new teaching degrees, there aren't even enough jobs for the domestic grads. Some years back, there was a shoo-in Canadian niche market with plenty of jobs - regular College of Education program plus training as a HS tech. teacher, if you had the "right stuff" and 10 years or more of industry experience. I hear those days are pretty well over, now.

    Yes - like law school. An oversaturated market.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2017
  20. RFValve

    RFValve Active Member

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    It is mainly due to protectionism, as education jobs in Ontario are highly paid, their unions protect their jobs so much that is technically impossible to get a job as a teacher unless you have experience as a teacher. Their unions always give priorities to hire people already in the union but really hard to get a job as an outsider. This is how wages are kept high.
    The degree is really not the most difficult thing when it comes to becoming a teacher, the main problem is the protectionism.
    Many people that I know that have BEds, end working in training, HR, technology training, etc as teaching careers are not so easy to get.
    In few words, once a person is hired as a teacher, the person is there for life and there is no chance that the position will become available. Most aspiring teachers become subs with the hopes to accumulate enough hours so they can become priority when a job becomes available.

    The same thing happens by the way in Universities, if you have a Canadian PhD, you have less than 25% chances of landing a tenure track so most become adjuncts or work in industry in jobs that do not require a PhD.
     

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