California says "No" to homeschooling

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by AV8R, Mar 3, 2008.

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  1. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

  2. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    >>

    Well, California has been one of the toughest states to homeschool in all along. I am sure www.HSLDA.org will pull the family through (assuming they have legal representation).
    Homeschooling is legal in all 50 states, but the hoops in each state vary. I live in Illinois because it is one of the homeschool friendly states (my husband and I both work in Iowa). Religion is tied to this issue for many people in the way religion is tied to abortion or vaccinations. It's too bad really, because it clouds the facts of freedom. But....
    It always cracks me up that the department of ed thinks they are education experts....according to what criteria??
     
  3. mattbrent

    mattbrent Well-Known Member

    Homeschooling definitely has its pros and cons. Unfortunately, I too often see the negatives. I teach high school freshmen and each year I have a few who have been homeschooled for their entire lives up until that year. Many of these kids lack basic skills, such as reading and math, which are obviously used as building blocks in other courses.

    If parents actually follow a curriculum (which are often provided by the state) I have no problem with homeschooling. But if the parents claim religious exemption just to get their kids out of public school when there is in reality no religious problem and then fail to actually educate their children, I do have a problem with that.

    My wife taught 8th grade special education last year. She had one student who was mentally retarded and nonverbal. The mother had "homeschooled" her for her entire life up until that year. They did nothing for the child, but demanded that the child learn to read by the end of that 8th grade year. Parents are ignorant... no, many parents are just stupid.

    As a teacher, we're always told to meet the parents in order to understand the student. When we meet the parents and realize how idiotic they are, it completely explains why the students act the way they do. This is unfortunate, because these parents breed students who are unprepared, and they hold down progress for every other student in their class. For this reason, I can honestly understand why a parent would want to homeschool.
     
  4. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

     
  5. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I am EXTREMELY skeptical about homeschooling.

    I think that it can work, and work well, if it's done right.

    But do typical parents, most of whom work, have the additional time, energy and commitment that's required to home-educate their children? Do parents have the knowledge of the K-12 curriculum that's necessary to teach it?

    Add in the religious-right agendas that are so often associated with the home-schooling movement and things look even worse.

    Frankly, I think that non-accredited university degree programs are just as credible (not very) as the idea of expanding homeschooling to the general population. The exceptions are the exceptional cases where parents are well educated themselves and able to devote the necessary time and effort to the task.
     
  6. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I consider myself fairly intelligent & well educated, but I have not the first clue about grade school curriculum. Even if I had the time to home school, I'd be an amateur at best; that's why we have professional teachers.

    I paid a pretty penny for my house and continue to pay steep property taxes, because I bought in an area specifically for the excellent public schools in the neighborhood. I don't complain when I pay my property tax bill, because I know I'm getting my money's worth in return.

    I've seen some exceptional home-schooled people (former DI contributor Tom Head for example), but for the great majority of Americans I don't think it's the best choice available.
     
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Jennifer, you're officially my favorite person of the day.

    -=Steve=-
     
  8. cklapka

    cklapka Member

    I have no problem with homeschooling, if schooling occurs of course. There are several places in this country where there are poorly run school systems.

    That said, I think it might be wise if parents first try to supplement the schools curriculum by ensuring students learn what they were taught. Many parents cannot even find the time to do this but still suggest that home schooling is best.
     
  9. skidadl

    skidadl Member

    Homeschooling can be a very good thing. If done correctly.

    The public school system is failing in so many ways it is unbelievable.

    I have 6 kids and one of them has been homeschooled for the last 4 years up until the Christmas break. Putting him back into public school has been a total disaster.
     
  10. mattbrent

    mattbrent Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that's because it's run by the government. Funny how the government has this perception that everyone should be educated the same way and that the government is going to control how those people are educated. Kinda parallels with communism if you ask me. After all, the government wanted to control how people did things and handle the economy. The US saw that as a bad thing, yet they continue to support a failing public school system.

    The problem is that public education IS a good thing. The problem is the belief that everyone should be the same. We are NOT the same, and it's ridiculous that the government wants us to be. We've gone from an equality of opportunity push to a push towards equality of outcome. Sure, it's great to give everyone an opportunity to succeed, but once they reach an age when they can make decisions, I don't think we should continue to push them. I have students in high school who obviously don't want to be there. Rather than teaching, we act as a baby sitting service, and this is an extreme disservice to those students who truly do want to learn.

    Public schools could work so well, if the students who went there actually wanted to be there. But when we have parents who don't care, we have students that don't care. Personally, I'm tired of being told that I have to be a parent for kids that aren't mine. I'm a teacher. I shouldn't have to raise your kid because you're too lazy to do it.

    Gosh, I could go on forever. Our whole society is screwed in the US. Public education is just a part of it.
     
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    I think that giving an absolute "no" to home-schooling is a very bad idea indeed. What does need to be done is to regulate who can be allowed to home-school. Those who supposedly "home-school" merely as an excuse to keep the kids out of school should not be allowed to do so, whereas those who are actually educating their kids should be allowed to do so.
     
  12. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    >>

    Matt, you missed it.
     
  13. mattbrent

    mattbrent Well-Known Member

    What exactly did I miss?
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    As an educator, I think home schooling is about as dumb--and harmful--as home dentistry.

    Education is about far more than mastering a curriculum content. Home-schooled kids are denied that. And what about unqualified parents? What about kids who need more than one or two parents can provide?

    But as someone with libertarian leanings, I don't really care if some fringe element thinks they can do better for their kids. Fine. (Darwin was right.) And it's not like society is going to collapse because some parents want to deny their children a decent and complete education.

    Here's two anecdotes: First, a few years ago, I was working from home when a van pulled up outside my house. The van had both a bumper sticker extolling the virtues of home schooling and one of those fish signs for Jesus. Out of the van bounded two school-age children, each carrying an armful of flyers to hang on doors. This during the week and during the time when other kids were in school. Oh, they were being educated all right, but I'm not so sure whether it fit the "curriculum."

    The second involves a couple who dearly wanted to protect their kids from all the evils found in public school. So they home-schooled them, two girls and a boy. The two girls both ended up as unwed mothers before they turned 18, and the boy ran off with his girlfriend to try to get married before he'd even turned 18. The girls passed their GED's; he did not. Both parents are nice, reasonable people--except they ill-prepared their kids for the pressures of the real world, yet were unable to protect the kids from these pressures.

    Just two examples. I'm sure there are a tremendous number of success stories. I don't personally know of any, though.
     
  15. skidadl

    skidadl Member

    Homeschoolers generally test better on national tests from what I understand.

    The public school system in America has many MANY failings that cannot be addressed because it is controlled by the government.

    I find your comments about kids out during school hours to be extremely narrow minded. I'm sure you can come up with something better than that. Did you stop and think that homeschoolers have the luxury to work on school at any time of the day or week? Much like DL education, it is very flexible in nature. Also, you are not saddled with busy-work or time wasting exercises, such as trying to teach to kids who don't give a crap. In general you can get as much done in a shorter amount of time.

    My son thinks that the schoolwork at public school is a joke. Since most kids in his school seem to be much further behind that him he is able to outperform them without much effort. Even with us living in a pretty good school district it would be pretty easy for us to get the amount of actual work done that he does by noon.
     
  16. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    This is an excellent point. Also, those home-schooled children who are academically gifted don't have to have their schedules adjusted to accommodate the least common denominator in the classroom. I wasn't a genius while in public school by any means, but I spent a lot of my time sitting around waiting for other students to finish their assignments before the classes could move on. This was, IMO, wasted time that could have been used more productively.

    Some students just work more efficiently than others and don't need to sit in a classroom all day long.
     
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    Thanks for calling me a name. Since you've decided to say such a nice thing about me, I'll direct the next one to you: What part of a-n-e-c-d-o-t-e don't you understand?

    Parents who home-school their kids get the results they deseve. If they're happy, I really couldn't care less what they do to their kids. (As long as they pay their taxes to support real schools, of course.)
     
  18. skidadl

    skidadl Member

    Stop being such a pansy, Rich.

    You stated that home schooling is about as dumb and as harmful as home dentistry. Which is stupid and narrow minded. As a DL expert I would expect more from you.

    Now all of the sudden you are offended cause I called your way of thinking narrow minded? I didn't mean to hurt you wittle fewings.

    You could answer some of the points that I made since they are valid.
     
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    He could, but since you escalated the personal attacks it wouldn't be surprising if he didn't. Why did you do that? You could have remained above that and seemed like a mature, articulate proponent of your position. But instead you chose to respond in a way that only undermined yourself. And since I happen to agree with you on homeschooling, that's really disappointing.

    -=Steve=-
     
  20. mattbrent

    mattbrent Well-Known Member

    Actually, this would apply to ALL students, not just home school students. In larger schools classes are "phased" where students are broken up based on ability levels. My wife's school was like this and had 5 phases. Unfortunately, my school is so small, it is impossible to do this, and as a result, we have gifted kids in the same classes with well, less-gifted kids. Schools have to be careful about this, however. With No Child Left Behind, everything is a numbers game. And we have to be politically correct as well. If a school were to do phases and the lowest phase was made up of all minority students, that would not be acceptable, even if they were truly the lowest phase.

    There's also a ton more politics involved. I teach all "honors" courses in World History. Unfortunately, the honors courses are not made up of honors students. I have over half of the 10th grade students in my Honors World History 2 class. I have students with D averages alongside students who are in the Governor's School Program for advanced students. Why is this? Politics. It could be a variety of reasons. A) I need diversity in my class, regardless of what it takes. B) Little Billy's mommy called and demanded he be put into the honors class. C) Teachers with more seniority have demanded they not have the "bad" students, so they get put into another teacher's class, even if the class is the honors class.

    I think we all agree that public education is NOT perfect. It IS, however, a good idea to an extent. Whether public school, private school, or home school, I think as long as students are learning, that is the important issue.
     

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