Bush: We must close the borders of Iraq. Hey George, what about ours??

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Veteran101, Feb 5, 2005.

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  1. Veteran101

    Veteran101 New Member

    President Bush has made comment about closing the borders of Iraq to keep possible terrorist out. I agree and support his analogy, however, he nor our past president Bill Clinton has done nothing about our problem here.

    To date during GW's first administration, America has opened the doors to over 12 million new aliens. President Clinton allowed the situation for 8 unchecked years to provide America with over 32 million additions. This alone provided America with September 11th.

    America today is not longer the biracial society of 1960 that struggled to erase division and close gaps. Today, we worry about trivial claims of a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, and multi-cultural society.

    Today, per the Almanac, there are over 32 million foreign-born in the United States. Half are from Latin America, a forth from Asia. The remainder is made up of Africans, Middle Easterns, and a very few Europeans. For example, in New York and Florida one in every five individuals are registered and undocumented aliens. In California, it is one in every 4. If you review the record of the 1990's the population growth results for California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, and Massachusetts will result in 100% alien only. For Florida, Texas, Michigan, and Maryland, it was 50% alien.

    Consider the following:

    1/3rd of the "legal" immigrants who come to America have not even finished high school. Over 20% do not even have a 9th grade education.

    Today, compared to the past status of immigrants, there are government gimmies that can make ones hair curl!!!
    We have Bush and the politicians on both sides the isle complaining about paying for Social Security. Well, consider we allow documented and undocumented aliens the use of food stamps, SUPPLIMENTAL SOCIAL SECURITY, medical care in emergency rooms, which 70+% of the bills go unpaid, and free school lunch programs that run over 75% of American born natives, well, maybe this is why SOCIAL SECURITY IS BROKE!!

    Even Mr Progressive Bill Clinton's own Department of Labor drone Robert Reichstag admitted that 50% of the real-wage losses sustained by low income American is due to unchecked immigration.

    Above is just a few items that come to mind when I hear politicians talk about saving the world that make my blood boil.
    Bush wants to spread his new world order to and throw. Following in Dad's footsteps, because he has the power to build utopia. Maybe he needs to look home first.

    Bush's State of the Union focused on Iraq and Social Security. Somehow, though I wish it would be true, I doubt we will ever see stability in the Middle East. Is it billions well spent? Social Security? I think it would last for years if we moved it off the alien welfare rolls and used it for what was intended in 1935. Retirement for seniors, and pension for the "truly" disabled.

    Im sure I will get knocked for my diatribe, but then again isn't it something to think about?:confused:
     
  2. Mr. Engineer

    Mr. Engineer member

    Well thought out post Veteran.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I like Veteran101, I really do, but his post smacks of racism and division.

    As far as President protecting our borders, we haven't had one single attack since 9/11. But, but, that doesn't mean we can't do better; we can, we should, and we must.

    He did address this in the State of the Union.
     
  4. Veteran101

    Veteran101 New Member

    Hello Jimmy,

    How does this post smack at Racism.

    I must object, it seems each time a position is taken in opposition to an agenda on either side of the isle, charges such as racism and division prevail.

    I do not generalize in this post. I just state numbers and facts taken from the census, almanac, and other references.

    My great grandparents were from Germany and outside of Native Americans everyone else here spawn from immigrants. My only issue is the drove of immigration hitting our land going unchecked.
    In the early days of migration to the US, everone passed via Ellis Island, today they just cross a river or roll in though the airports.

    It is no secret that Clinton tore our infrastructure apart in regard to the INS, Intelligence, and other areas. It is no secret that Bush and Fox have been in love since day one.


    For example, I find it a little odd that a soldier can serve in Iraq after re-enlisting to serve his country plus receive a pultry 5,000 bonus only to come back missing his legs and receive a certified letter from our government ordering to pay his 5,000 back since he can no longer serve. On the other hand we must hand drivers license to illegal aliens who broke our laws to get here and then provide free medical care and Social Security disability?????

    Im sorry Jimmy, I just feel that laws should be equal and "everyone" should have to play under the same rules. All in all our current policies can be considered racist and causing division.
     
  5. BinkWile

    BinkWile New Member

    I do not see how this post smacks of Racism. I find that you often use the term "racism" quite liberally Jimmy.


    Veteran101 never mentioned anything about the nationality, race, religion, or ethnicity of anyone illegally entering our country, only that they are illegal, and pose a threat.

    I agree 100% with Veteran101. The immigration issue is getting out of hand, and Bush has to do something about. He's just as culpable as his predecessors.

    Also Jimmy, just because there hasn't been a terrorist attack on the US since 9-11 doesn't mean anything. We could get hit tomorrow, and then we'd be criticizing him to the ends of the Earth about mistakes made. Terrorist attacks as big as 9-11 take a very long tiem to plan, and its concievable one may not take place for another period of time, perhaps not even during Bush's 2nd term.

    What will be really interesting is to see is what happens to the next US President. Whomever it is, will be under enormous pressure to prevent a terrorist attack, especially if its a Democrat. A terrorist attack will happen in the future, but if it does happen, then Bush can take all the credit as being a great leader, and the new guy (or gal) will be seen as weak.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2005
  6. Veteran101

    Veteran101 New Member

    Remember, we had one attack during Clinton in 1993, nothing was done, then 2001. Bush attacked Afghanistan and Iraq but has done nothing to control the tide here even after warnings from his own staff. Of course George does not want to anger Vincent Fox, of whom did not support the US Iraq policy.

    Where I am going with this?
    Though we are dealing with terrorist, we are dealing with individuals who are calculated and cunning.
    The investigations showed the 1993 attacked was planned and practiced since 1991 and the 2001 attacks were reviewed and practiced by the terrorist for 5 years.

    The only thing I am stating is George and his New World Order are so busy looking outside our borders for the enemy he better pay closer attention to what is inside our borders.

    We attacked Afghanistan and Iraq from outside, our attacks here were from the inside. Again, I cannot figure out his theory when he states that we need to "close" the border of Iraq to stop further attack possibilities, but let the status quo continue here.

    Kind of like Tom57s point on another thread, quote FDR like a hero in one breath, but tear his policy apart with the other.

    One fun thing about me is Im not a present day Republican because present day Republicans are not Reagan Republicans and we all know Im not a Democrat since I do not believe in Socialist Marxist theory.
    I guess Im just a disenchanted Republican with a Independent streak.

    Enjoy,

    Keep'm coming Jimmy I enjoy your threads.
    You and Tom57 keep it hopping here
     
  7. qvatlanta

    qvatlanta New Member

    Why does any of this mean that you have to blame the immigrants themselves and call them "quote/unquote" illegal? Legal or illegal, they would NOT be here if they were not WANTED. I'd like to see the same sense of outrage directed against the businesses that hire or subcontract illegal immigrants. A lot of the vegetables you buy in the store were picked through migrant immigrant labor, your chickens were plucked cleaned and gutted by them too. Unless you built your house or apartment bulding yourself, immigrant labor almost certainly went into it. They're wanted, so they're here, and now that they are here I would rather see them stay healthy and get medical treatment so they don't spread diseases like tuberculosis. They pay sales taxes, many illegal immigrants even pay full payroll taxes including social security tax, and they are economically speaking a positive force in the economy. For example, yes many are uneducated. That's an opportunity to pay for educational services, and one of the reasons why ESL opportunities for teachers are so widespread. There are very few American citizens that they really compete against for jobs. The only way to make the system fairer is to change their status from illegal to guest worker and regulate the system so wages are more equalized, but I guess that's too much like communism for some people!!! America is among the group of rich nations, and pretty much every rich nation in the world has a need for labor from poorer countries, and most of them handle it in a fairer and smarter way than we do.

    There are plenty of non-US citizens in the US armed forces as well. It looks like granting posthumous U.S. citizenship to soldiers killed in combat is common practice now, which seems bizarre but fair...
     
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Here again, I agree with the President. He wants immigration reform that will benefit both Mexican immigrants and U.S. citizens. I don't like all of the details, but our present law is borderline psychotic.
     
  9. deleonjose

    deleonjose New Member

    this was a country built on imigrants, but people continue to be upset about it. I agree wholeheartedly with qvatlanta.
     
  10. Learned Foot

    Learned Foot member

  11. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Is "Learned Foot" a play on Judge Learned Hand?
     
  12. qvatlanta

    qvatlanta New Member

    Here's an example of one of those new aliens rolling over the borders in waves, stealing American taxpayer money and not giving anything back in return.


    Thursday, January 27, 2005 · Last updated 4:29 p.m. PT
    Posthumous citizenship granted to Marine

    By BRETT ZONGKER
    ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

    ARLINGTON, Va. -- He was born in Vietnam and came to America at age 6. After growing up in northern Virginia, he joined the Marines even though he was not a U.S. citizen.

    Cpl. Binh Le became an American on Thursday, but he could not attend the citizenship ceremony held in the shadow of the Pentagon. Last month, he was buried nearby in Arlington National Cemetery, the victim of a truck bomb in Iraq during a voluntary second tour of duty there.

    Le, 20, grabbed his rifle when the truck packed with explosives attacked his military post Dec. 3. He had run to a position to fire on the driver and hold back the vehicle when it exploded. His commanding officer recommended him for a Silver Star.

    "His final act of bravery saved the lives of others," Capt. Christopher J. Curtain wrote in a letter read at the ceremony. "I will be forever grateful for his heroism."

    An estimated 37,000 citizens of other countries serve in the U.S. armed forces. Since the Iraq war began, 54 have been awarded posthumous citizenship.

    Le was raised by his aunt and uncle in Alexandria, Va. His parents, Lien Van Tran and Kim Hoan Thi Nguyen, traveled from Vietnam for his funeral. They are divorced but would like to remain in the United States to be close to their son's grave, Nguyen said.

    "There's no way to describe the pain," she said.

    Rep. James P. Moran, D-Va., said he is working to offer citizenship to Le's parents, which could require congressional action.

    "I think this is a compelling enough case that we can get a single bill for citizenship for his parents," Moran said. "They certainly deserve it."

    Tran said they didn't have a problem with their son enlisting in the Marine Corps, but they wanted him to have time to attend college.

    "His main concern was to join the military so that he could help protect the country he loved so much," Tran said.
     
  13. BinkWile

    BinkWile New Member

    I was present at that ceremony here in arlington VA (4th row). It took place aboard MCB Henderson Hall, and it was a very emotional event, and I offered my condolensces to the parents.

    However, what on earth does this have to do with the control of US borders? I respect any foreign national who joins the military and protects the US, heck I met many when I was in the marines. However, this has nothing to do with the fact that numerous aliens enter this country illegally.

    I want everyone who is not a citizen to be accounted for. Even if 999 out of 1000 illegal immigrants is good, I want that 1 bad guy caught.

    Also, the Cpl was not an illegal immigrant, so I don't seem to understand the logic of your posting of this story.

    Semper Fi
     
  14. qvatlanta

    qvatlanta New Member

    Exactly because the first post in this thread did NOT distinguish between legal and illegal aliens but attacked them equally.
     
  15. BinkWile

    BinkWile New Member

    Roger that, thank you for the clarification.
     
  16. Rob L

    Rob L New Member

    Veteran 101,


    As a 6-year Navy veteran and current employee of the NJ Dept of Family Development (known as "welfare" to the politically incorrect), I definently understand where you are coming from. But, I just want to clarify a few things.

    Here in New Jersey, we dole out of millions of dollars in the form of food stamps to people who are here illegally. To make things worse, illegal immigrants are often our system's biggest scammers. The reason is that these people often do not have social security numbers. As a result, it makes it damn near impossible for us to track where they work or really reside.

    Our agency works closely with the Social Security Administration. Contrary to your belief, illegal immigrants rarely receive any social security benefits. As I said before, these people often do not have social security numbers. Without a social security number, they cannot receive social security benefits.

    For what it is worth, I don't think your comments smack of racism or prejudice. I too think it is frustrating that our government often bends over backwards to help illegal alients, but it does not give honorably discharged veterans this same treatment.

    For those that my comment smacks of racism, I will give credit where credit is due. In looking at the statistics, immigrants are only on public assistance for one generation. The "lifers" tend to be from families who have been in the United States for at least 100 years. The children of illegal immigrants seldom ever apply for public assistance.

    Although I understand the motives of immigrants from poverty and/or war stricken countries for smuggling themeselves to America, I still think our country needs to do a much better job of protecting its borders. Besides things like terroism and public assistance, our country is running out of room.

    I am certain I will face some backlash as a result of this post. To clarify, I am not biased against immigrants and I understand their motives for coming here. However, I am against the current policy of being politically correct as the first priority.
     
  17. Veteran101

    Veteran101 New Member

    Rob L.
    Good reply, Im sure some will agree with you.

    QV,

    I love the way you interpret my post.
    I do not smack at ALL immgrants. Yes, I even served with some immigrants in the US Army on green cards.

    My issue is with illegal immigrants, those who break the law to get here. I also have issues with legals who would rather ride the system, as I do with US nationals who do the same.

    You have a great example on the business that hide and hire illegals, I agree 100% that these individuals should be punished to the maximum extent of the law.

    Now QV, you have to admit we have a very broken system in regard to the immigration issue. For example, the terrorist who are responsible for 3000 deaths on 9.11. were in the US legally. However, some of them were on expired visas that were never followed on.

    I could go on and on but I have to sign out now.
     
  18. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I really don't think anyone in his right mind could question the need for MUCH tighter control of our borders. 9/11 should have taught us that, if it teaches us nothing else.

    But I implore folks NOT to use this as an excuse to scapegoat the millions of illegal immigrants who are here to work.

    Yes, they broke our laws to get here. Yes, they need to be sent back or documented in some way so that we no longer have a "shadow" work force that, having no rights, can be abused in ways that would horrify you.

    But let us understand very, very clearly that the REAL evil doers are those in government who deliberately look the other way to allow the rich and powerful to derive profits from the labor of illegal immigrants. Start putting THOSE officials and CEOs in jail and watch what happens. When the jobs dry up, so will the immigration.

    The President, whom I hate and despise more than any other in my life, is entirely correct on this issue. I urge you to support him in this; we need to regularize these immigrants thereby empowering them to demand humane treatment from their employers.

    I do not call for a naturalization process. If the President thinks that best, I will support it; if he thinks it a bad idea, I will support him that way.

    Now, although I herewith announce to all and sundry that I am a CARD CARRYING MEMBER of the ACLU, I differ with them in this one respect. We NEED a federal ID card system. Heck, we almost all carry State issued ID in the form of driver's licenses or ID cards; all we need to do is stiffen the identification requirements to obtain these documents.

    Then, by heaven, anyone who employs anyone WITHOUT such a document goes to prison. Period. No matter who they are, no matter how much they contributed to the Party.

    Every European democracy has national ID cards. They still seem free enough.

    Get behind President Bush in this matter. Our security depends on it.
     
  19. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    The UK is an exception although there is talk about requiring one.
    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/n_story.asp?item_id=675
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2005
  20. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    True. You know, I never seem to include the U.K. when I think of Europe. I wonder why?
     

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