BS Psych

Is the competition for PsyD programs as fierce as the competition for PhD Psych programs?

 

Hi Forgive my ignorance but what is the difference between the two? I was told I needed the PhD to get patients. My original plan was to do cognitive brain science but was told with that Doctorate I would require two extra years of practical where as with the PhD it is all combined ie you can get permission to be licensed to practice do thesis and clinical concurrently once you have completed the masters' equivalent.

 

A PsyD is a 90 sem hr (135 qtr hr) doctorate to which you are admitted directly from the bachelor's. Also, the PsyD is more practical and applied. One does an internship while still in the doctoral program (an MA is issued after the 30 sem hrs/45 qtr hrs so that one is considered qualified to be an intern) and the dissertation is based on one's internship. The PhD is usually 60 sem hrs (90 qtr hrs) and usually presupposes that one already has the master's degree (though some PhD Psych programs take you directly from the bachelor's - this is true of Capella, NCU, Walden) and the dissertation is more research-oriented. The PsyD tends to prepare practicing psychologists while the PhD tends to prepare future professors.

 

I took the GRE Psych exam in April, and feel that the ETS practice exam is not indicative of the info needed to score >80 percentile. KNOW how interpret research designs! I scored in the 73rd percentile, but the study aids (I owned them all) do not focus enough on research methods.
Angela

 

You might want to check your state licensure requirements. I'm not sure how generalized this is (as each state certainly has the right to be different), but in the state of Ohio, you can get state licensure as a counselor with a master's degree but you need the doctorate to practice as a psychologist. Check the following weblinks for state-by-state licensure requirements.

www.counseling.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=SUMMARY_CHART (counselors)
www.uky.edu/Education/EDP/psyinfo2.html (psychologists)

By the way, does anyone know of any degree-relevant opportunities that would be available to persons with undergrad psych degrees?

 

I went to http://www.hotjobs.com
and typed
Bachelors psychology
in the keywords search field

it brought back a whole lot of stuff

some are not so interesting, like
Human Resources Manager
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/jobseeker/jobsearch/job_detail.html;_ylt=Apzh6FIVPA2_dLE.RGXuJuX6Q6IX?job_id=J4H1FSSN6&search_url=%2Fjobseeker%2Fjobsearch%2Fsearch_results.html%3Fkeywords_all%3DBachelors%2Bpsychology%26country1%3DUSA%26search_type_form%3Dquick%26updated_since%3Dsixtydays%26basicsearch%3D0%26advancedsearch%3D0%26metro_area%3D1%26search%3DSearch%26kw%3DBachelors%252Bpsychology&keywords_any=&keywords_all=Bachelors%2Bpsychology&keywords_phrase=

some are, like
Social Worker Case Manager
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/jobseeker/jobsearch/job_detail.html;_ylt=AuUQoaGmU1kR.j64OJ3zR.D6Q6IX?job_id=JHOHVTDLA&search_url=%2Fjobseeker%2Fjobsearch%2Fsearch_results.html%3Fkeywords_all%3DBachelors%2Bpsychology%26country1%3DUSA%26search_type_form%3Dquick%26updated_since%3Dsixtydays%26basicsearch%3D0%26advancedsearch%3D0%26metro_area%3D1%26search%3DSearch%26kw%3DBachelors%252Bpsychology&keywords_any=&keywords_all=Bachelors%2Bpsychology&keywords_phrase=

Behavior Intervention Specialist:
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/jobseeker/jobsearch/job_detail.html;_ylt=AusV8D4PL3UjI7Nv9QKz2gH6Q6IX?job_id=J683269NL&search_url=%2Fjobseeker%2Fjobsearch%2Fsearch_results.html%3Fkeywords_all%3DBachelors%2Bpsychology%26country1%3DUSA%26search_type_form%3Dquick%26updated_since%3Dsixtydays%26basicsearch%3D0%26advancedsearch%3D0%26metro_area%3D1%26search%3DSearch%26kw%3DBachelors%252Bpsychology&keywords_any=&keywords_all=Bachelors%2Bpsychology&keywords_phrase=

Counselor - Substance Abuse / Chemical Dependency
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/jobseeker/jobsearch/job_detail.html;_ylt=Ar79ZGhZdcXy_oNn9yVGGAf6Q6IX?job_id=JJ0SFRJ53&search_url=%2Fjobseeker%2Fjobsearch%2Fsearch_results.html%3Fkeywords_all%3DBachelors%2Bpsychology%26country1%3DUSA%26search_type_form%3Dquick%26updated_since%3Dsixtydays%26basicsearch%3D0%26advancedsearch%3D0%26metro_area%3D1%26search%3DSearch%26kw%3DBachelors%252Bpsychology&keywords_any=&keywords_all=Bachelors%2Bpsychology&keywords_phrase=

Psychology Program Assistant: Institute on Aging
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/jobseeker/jobsearch/job_detail.html;_ylt=AswuEun2E.DcKQIvJ8w8_fn6Q6IX?job_id=J218733PT&search_url=%2Fjobseeker%2Fjobsearch%2Fsearch_results.html%3Fkeywords_all%3DBachelors%2Bpsychology%26country1%3DUSA%26search_type_form%3Dquick%26updated_since%3Dsixtydays%26basicsearch%3D0%26advancedsearch%3D0%26metro_area%3D1%26search%3DSearch%26kw%3DBachelors%252Bpsychology&keywords_any=&keywords_all=Bachelors%2Bpsychology&keywords_phrase=

however, these all require additional certifications and experience

 

My guess based on a couple decades of training psychologists is the greatest competition is for programs that provide financial support not so much PsyD v. PhD. I marvel and take my hat off to students who routinely amass debt loads of over 100K for a profession with a median salary of 78K. Among the many blessings I count in my life is the financial support that was available to boomers. Between an MSW and an APA approved degree in counseling psychology I took out one loan I used to buy a motorcycle and a stereo. Students from free-standing schools, which tend to offer the PsyD, seem to run up the largest debt and students from state schools, which tend to offer the PhD and provide tuition waivers as well as teaching assistantships, run up the least. The boundaries seem to have blurred since APA dropped the scientist-practitioner training model. Regarding opportunities at the undergraduate level, I expect this is restricted to psychology technician positions.

 

Let me see if I can shed a bit of light on an area that can be confusing; you may be looking at two separate entities. There is a difference between fields like neuroscience, biopsychology or cognitive psychology and neuropsychology. The former are geared toward producing academicians whereas the latter is geared toward producing licensed psychologists who address brain-behavior relationships. Neuropsychologists train in one of the applied disciplines (clinical, counseling, school) then complete a pre-doctoral internship and a two year post-doc. The neuropsychologist would have the opportunity to pursue a career in academia as well as clinical practice whereas, say, a biopsychologist would not have the opportunity of clinical practice unless he somehow managed to bootleg a license.

 

The job market for undergrad Psych degree holders is very limited. As you may know, there aren't too many job positions tailored with this degree in mind. I'm sure there are some research assistant positions available. BTW, the one exception here is the U.S. Federal Government. They are VERY liberal as to what they will consider a "Psychologist".

This blurb comes from the U.S. Dept. of Labor BLS website (http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos056.htm):

"A bachelor’s degree in psychology qualifies a person to assist psychologists and other professionals in community mental health centers, vocational rehabilitation offices, and correctional programs. They may work as research or administrative assistants or become sales or management trainees in business. Some work as technicians in related fields, such as marketing research.

In the Federal Government, candidates having at least 24 semester hours in psychology and one course in statistics qualify for entry-level positions. However, competition for these jobs is keen because this is one of the few areas in which one can work as a psychologist without an advanced degree.

Opportunities directly related to psychology will be limited for bachelor’s degree holders. Some may find jobs as assistants in rehabilitation centers, or in other jobs involving data collection and analysis. Those who meet State certification requirements may become high school psychology teachers."


Also, while the information is a bit dated (published in 1976), you can find information regarding a career with a Bachelor's in Psychology on the following website:

http://psych.hanover.edu/handbook/bachpsy2.html

I must be a glutton for punishment, because I just recently decided to pursue a BS in Psychology online through Nova Southeastern University! However, I do not have plans to pursue a Psychology related job position with this degree. I'm very interested in Psychology as a topic, however I am planning to pursue an MPH (Masters in Public Health), and that is the arena I plan to work in.

- Tom

 

Tom, I'm in a somewhat similar situation as you. I agree that a bachelor in psychology alone hasn't much worth. However, I just finished my Excelsior business bachelor and want go on for a MBA. At the same time I want to pursue a second Excelsior bachelor in psychology. I think that it will enhance the value of the MBA, especially in such psychology related fields as HRM or Marketing. Probably the same holds true for your MPH degree.

Dennis

 

Hi
David Williams...That was great info on the qualifications.

I am a missionary with injury related travel limitations. I sustained an MTBI and finding good research based rehab was a real challenge. I want to contribute to this field creating programs and doing patient based research.

I felt the PhD in Cinical Psych with the major in neuro psych would be the best option. I then plan to do the additional two years Post doc. for the full Neuro Psych status. In my state I can take medicare patients at a masters level.

I have sources that will help me publish research and supply me with an internship.

Fielding is mostly online which means I could continue missions work. Fielding will release me to write for the license two years into the program. They seemed to be well regarded by APA
But first I have to test out....If you have any suggestions on fast tracking this while still getting quality instruction I am open to input!!

 

For testing out, Charter Oak State College www.cosc.edu , Excelsior College www.excelsiorcollege.edu , and Thomas Edison State College www.tesc.edu are still your best options. For competency-based degrees, one might find out whether Western Governors University www.wgu.edu offers a psych bachelor's.

What's an MTBI?

 

Thanks..

MTBI is a mild traumatic brain injury. There is diffuse axonal shearing so this affects working memory, limbic system etc. It also influences emotions.

Part of the brain is resistant to this kind of damage in this part I tested at the lower end of gifted but there was still a projected 25% loss. In the other areas I tested impaired which is the bottom 2-5% of the scale. Not fun! I researched and rehabbed and now test close to normal...whatever that is. The damage was considered permanent..not a lot of help out there.

I really want to make a difference in this field if I have enough brains left to do it. That is why I am testing out..If I can do it I will move on to Graduate school. People have been phenomenally helpful and kind..several neighbors offered to tutor me for free. They all think I can do it and I am going to try

 

Well, I certainly hope you succeed. If you have enough intellectual abilities left to get the relevant pieces of wallpaper, I'm certain that you'll make an excellent psychologist because you will have true empathy for the brasin injury victims under your watchcare.

I am very manic-depressive and have been so for the past seventeen years (since two years after a right temporal lobectomy for epilepsy and a benign ganglioma brain tumor). I have been in a group counseling situation for the past couple of years and my fellow group members are all females, most of whom are trapped in abusive relationships. My counselor, who I recently found out is a distant cousin, says that she admires the way that I have the ability to cut straight through to the issues and render advice to my fellow group members. She has been encouraging me to get a psychology degree. I wish I could figure whether to start over with an undergrad psych degree or start with the MA in Counseling and then go for the PsyD. I would like to counsel abuse victims.

Oh, by the way, my friend Ultimale advised me over at www.degreeforum.com that Northcentral University www.ncu.edu has a psych bachelor's program and they have a system that is not semester-based (meaning that apparently one can start when one wants and needn't wait an entire sixteen weeks to finish one's existing course and start a new one, if you can do the work faster). They also have the master's and doctorate.

 

Here is a recent psychology thread in which I posted threadlinks in which I had postings with weblinks to all the dl master's and doctoral programs in psychology and counseling that I could find in Bears' Guide: http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20571 . One of those linked threads also has a post in which I listed threadlinks to a bunch of old degreeinfo psychology threads. Here is another old psychology thread, in which I posted a list of undergrad psych degrees: http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19454 .

 

Thanks..I will check out the links! The manic depressive has been implicated with prefrontal cortex injury. I found it helped me to realise where things were coming from so I could differentiate between the emotional and biological realm. Also when you have knowledge your brain gets the cues to provide a workaround. If it was me I would go straight for the masters. Counselling is what you want to do and you probably have a good background from support groups etc. and the general knowledge from your other degrees. Most people get bogged down by the statistics courses which are pretty much the same as you would have taken already. There is an opencourseware site free on MIT(no credit) same material as their classes http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html and http://www.freeuniv.com shows some undergraduate material. You could check it out and see where you fit. You are an inspiration for me..I am working on finding that wall paper! PS a psych recommendation for the degree will help you get in

 

http://www.nationalregister.org/designate_alphasearch.htm

Hi this does not show NorthCentral univ as being one where you are qualified to write for the license..It is incredibly inexpensive though. Fielding is seventeen thousand a year! Any ideas for those of us who need a Psych license?

Thanks

 

Doesn't being licensed as a Psychologist require an APA approved program? Fielding is and I believe NCU isn't. Hopefully others will add information.

 

Depends on the state. There are a couple of state-approved but unaccredited schools, Ryokan College and San Diego University for Integral Studies, that offer PsyD programs that qualify one to sit for the California state licensure exams. Licensure in a second state usually depends on licensure in state number one, not whether one's degree is accredited. Check the state licensure weblinks provided in one of the above posts.

 

Here are a few thoughts in response to recent posts. First of all not all doctoral programs mandate having one’s BS in the field. Lots of interns come through with varied backgrounds many of whom were accepted without picking up a BS in psychology. Secondly, depending upon the state it is possible to obtain a license with a doctorate in other than one of the applied disciplines (clinical, counseling, school psychology) or coming from an unapproved program. Limitations attach, however. Third, the best practice is to earn one’s degree from an APA-approved program and also do an APA-approved pre-doctoral internship. These are separate entities and the internship has been a bottleneck at times with some students sitting out a year. Having an APA-approved internship is important for winning acceptance into a neuropsychology post-doc as they are darn competitive. At one point the Division 40/INS standard was at least 50% of the pre-doctoral internship would be neuropsychology related although this has been relaxed.