Big mouth DETC challenge

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Ed Edwards, Feb 13, 2013.

Loading...
  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Perhaps it's the fact that the subject of this board--and DETC's only focus--is on distance learning?
     
  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Except, the fact is the same thing comes up on every board here that doesn't have DETC in its subject heading...

    I honestly can't remember when another NA body was discussed at length on this site.
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Huh? Again, it's because DETC is way more relevant to this site's purpose than are the other NA agencies. By far.
     
  4. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Again, I don't see how. And, it begs the question: why is the DETC "way more relevant to this site's purpose than are the other NA agencies. By far"?

    The DETC is made up of a tiny number of schools, most of which are little known if not entirely unknown to the general public, and a lot of those schools are probably lesser known than a majority of the schools from a few other NA bodies. They're also not the only NA body whose schools offer distance education. Those two measures alone--combined with the fact that this site is about distance education--seem like they would drive a lot more discussion about NA schools from other NA bodies.
     
  5. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    There is nothing wrong with getting a degree that has inferior utility, such as DETC, as long as the consumer is aware of the limitations. It's good that discussion boards can point these things out.
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Then discuss them.
     
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Agreed. And besides, it's not like the others are never mentioned at all. I sometimes refer to my experience working for an ACICS school in the context of national accreditation, and schools accredited by TRACS have gotten their share of attention here as well.
     
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Why? Seriously, people say this as though it's a given, but I'm not sure why that's so. In practical terms, if I'm an undergraduate studying, say, accounting, why should I care in the slightest what sort of research the faculty members are doing when they're not teaching me or grading my homework? What realistic impact is it really going to have on how much I get out of the course and program?
     
  9. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    But the DETC seems to be synonymous with national accreditation here. I very rarely (almost never) see discussion about other NA bodies, and certainly not at the length or frequency that the discussion about DETC schools reach. And as I've said, other NA bodies and their schools would certainly meet the criteria for discussion here (Nationally accredited, offering distance education).

    I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just puzzling considering how many more NA schools (thousands, perhaps?) their are from other NA accreditors compared to the very tiny DETC list (75, 80 at most?).
     
  10. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    ACICS schools come up, like Stevens-Henager College, Westwood College, Everest University, and (dually DETC/ACICS) California Miramar University. ACCSC schools like Full Sail University. TRACS schools like Tennessee Temple University. ABHE schools. While they still had DOED recognition, the AALE came up.
     
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    A student might not care, but take the wider look. Faculty who are actively engaged in their academic disciplines are moving the the thinking, the knowledge, the theory, and the practice associated with that discipline. If the DL course is pre-cooked, if it is taught by instructors who did not create it, then I agree. But if the professors who are actively engaged in research are also creating and conducting courses, that is a very good thing for both present and future students.

    In my field, I would love to learn from academicians Richard Swanson, Elwood Holton III, or Wendy Ruona even more than our field's star practitioners like Josh Breslin, Tamar Elkeles, or Donald Kirkpatrick. Well, at least as much, anyway!
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You've been a member of this board long enough to know that is not true. DETC is normally singled out from the other NAs. However, when it comes to degree acceptance (by universities and/or employers), "NA" is a better moniker since all NAs tend to be treated the same in those situations. In other words, we would doubt that there are many situations where one NA was acceptable and others were not. I'm sure it could happen, but it isn't normally true. That's why you see DETC sometimes being singled out and other times when it is discussed as an NA.
    Nonsense. Other NAs are discussed as merited. TRACS and ACICS are brought up all the time. But because they accredit far fewer DL schools of interest to the posters on this board, they get mentioned fewer times.

    There is no active effort to create the condition you decry. It rises naturally from the interests of the people posting here. But if you want to change that dynamic, quit complaining about it and post things that others will want to comment on. It's just that simple.
    Thousands? Really? Thousands of NA schools? Even if that was true, how many are offering DL degree programs? This is hyperbole, but crummy hyperbole. ACICS accredits fewer than a thousand, and most of them are non-degree-granting. TRACS accredits a bit more than 50. How many others are there?

    Again, if you want to change the conversation, by all means do it.
     
  13. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I've been a member long enough to know it is true. And your second sentence negates your first since it basically agrees with my point about the NA spotlight mostly being on the DETC here.

    Not nonsense, and I didn't say other NA's were never discussed...

    At least you gave a plausible explanation as to why some other NA's may not be discussed as much.

    I've decried nothing of some sort of "active effort" to do anything. I've merely pointed out that whenever NA is discussed the DETC is usually brought up before any other NA accreditor.

    And, it's not a complaint nor a call to change any dynamic; it's just an observation.

    Did I say I wanted to "change the conversation"? No, I did not.

    Further, while this site is called "DegreeInfo.com", by no means has that ever meant discussion about non-degree granting programs or other types of accreditation doesn't happen or that it's discouraged, as plenty of non-degree granting discussion has pretty much always been done here. So the whole degree angle you're putting there doesn't connect.

    And with the above said, my point about there being thousands of NA's is not "hyperbole" and certainly not "crummy hyperbole" (smh), it's simply fact:

    ACICS = 973

    ABHES = 454

    ACCET = 387

    ACCSC = 940

    COE = 611

    NACCAS = 1364

    NYSBR = 30

    TRACS = 30

    AARTS = 75

    ABHE = 108

    = 4,972 based on the USDOE database.

    As far as knowing exactly how many offer DL programs, I wouldn't be surprised if most of them did, but I don't know for sure and never claimed to. You would/should know before most of us here. After all, you have an expertise in that capacity...

    Anyway, Rich, it would be beneficial for you, the people you discuss things with, and on-lookers, to discuss things without coming across in a rude, uncivil, attacking manner as often as you do... and I say that considering how often it's completely unwarranted (this case included). Other members have said this type of thing to you more than once in the past, and for whatever reason it's not getting through. Perhaps you can't help it, who knows. FYI, it doesn't make you look good and actually weakens whatever efforts you intend to make when you post.

    I shouldn't have to be given the third degree because I mentioned a curiosity about subject frequency. You could've left it at this:

    ... and it would've been enough. Why you've decided to turn it into something bigger than that is just one of those things you do, and I'm not interested in carrying on with it any further in this thread.
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Is it style or substance? What's the objection?

    You're lucky your responding to me and not Levicoff. He'd shred you. I just think your points are contradictory and all over the place.

    Good luck with all your threads regarding other national accrediting agencies. I'm sure everyone will appreciate them.
     
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Oh, and thank you for the criticisms. While they have no bearing on the merits of the discussion, I thank you for the feedback.
     
  16. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    On the whole, I think not much discussion on these boards is driven by what experts and high-volume posters think are the most important issues in higher education.

    Rather discussion is mostly driven, one way or another, by consumer interest. If an ACCSC school started offering DL bachelor's or master's programs on a relatively low price model cost-competitive with the Big Three, the in-state-for-all state schools, and a few DETC schools, interest in that ACCSC school would drive posting. If an ACICS school started offering DL doctorates that were cost-competitive, that were in a field without many DL doctorates, and/or that hit Rich and CalDog's points*about research activity, interest in that ACICS school would drive posting.
     
  17. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Thank you, LearningAddict. I was really taken aback by the huge number of Bachelor's and Master's degree-granting schools ACICS has accredited. 415 schools at the Bachelor's level and 74 at the Master's. Far more than DETC. (I don't have time or incentive to discover how many them are all or part DL, but that would be very interesting information to have.)

    Their directory: http://personify.acics.org/Default.aspx?TabID=204)
     
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I echo the interest in DL programs from schools that are accredited by other NAs. But there either aren't many or they just don't get mentioned here. I suspect the former. I don't see them advertised or appearing elsewhere, either.

    Perhaps Mr/Ms/Dr Addict could raise them as discussion topics.
     
  19. ebbwvale

    ebbwvale Member

    Here is one that offers online learning, California Miramar University:
    "CMU offers an evening Hybrid MBA program that meets just one night per week and the rest is online. It's a great solution for busy working professionals. CMU also offers 100% online Graduate and Undergraduate programs. Call us to find out more!"
    FAQs | Online MBA Programs | San Diego, CA
    It is accredited by the Accrediting Council for Independent Colleges and Schools. I have not checked any others.
     
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It is also accredited by DETC. I wonder what value they see in carrying both forms of accreditation?

    BTW, this school comes from the remains of Pacific Western University, a persistently unaccredited DL school awarding degrees in almost any area and constantly dodging California Approval. (IIRC, it was one of those bifurcated schools that awarded most of its degrees under incredibly lax Hawaii laws while actually operating from California where it maintained a separate--and much smaller--version of itself subject to California's approval.) New owners transformed it into today's California Miramar University. It would be unfair, however, to see this as one school. PWU in all forms is dead.
     

Share This Page