Atlantic International University

There is very much you do not know. This is easily determined by what you post...what you try to demonstrate that you DO know.

My comment was in direct response to something you posted. Thus, you purported to know what was in your post. To hide behind your follow-on comment is unfortunate. But fine.

 

By the way, if you are willing to list your degrees and their sources--used, obviously, to add gravitas to your statements--you should be willing to use a real name. I'm struggling with reconciling 'Legal Eagle' with 'JD, Harvard University.' I'm sure I'm not the only one.

So, who are you, and how may we find your other work?

 

Not sure, but are you implying that the University is Illegitimate? Again, just my thoughts. I'm not the Judge and the Jury on this. Not sure if it is or not the case, but obviously they have some legitimacy to be in business since 1998---> https://hbe.ehawaii.gov/documents/business.html?fileNumber=114110D1 with over 5,800 Alumni who appear to have careers-->https://www.linkedin.com/edu/alumni?name=Atlantic+International+University&trk=prof-edu-school-name

They would have been shut down by now. You can't run a illegitimate for 17 years without being scrutinized by the authorities. They must be doing something right.

 

Well, which authorities?

Because Atlantic International University appears on a list of institutions whose degrees are illegal to use in the state of Texas.

Hawaii also requires that unaccredited schools in their state specifically mention that they are unaccredited and not try to hide behind private accreditations and state approval.

I can also tell you that Oregon previously listed Atlantic International on its list of unaccredited schools whose degrees are illegal to use in the state of Oregon (this list has been removed in favor of the much broader statement that only accredited degrees are A-OK to use in Oregon without posting a disclaimer on your resume).

Also, Atlantic International has reportedly also operated from Nigeria where, I can only imagine, the local authorities are less likely to enforce our notions of a "legitimate" university.

So, scrutiny by "authorities?" Check. They absolutely are on the radar of their home state. But they haven't broken any laws. That doesn't mean they are "legitimate" just "operating legally."

It's illegal for me to practice medicine without a license. However, if I start calling myself "Dr. Neuhaus" and hang out a shingle advertising my services as a "Wellness Consultant" I can likely skirt that law. I would, in effect, be "operating legally" in a legal gray area where my business is arguably not "legitimate" in the sense that it is an attempt to practice medicine while exploiting a loophole.

 

Reading the reports from the following Department of Commerce and Consumer affairs of HAWAI
https://hbe.ehawaii.gov/documents/business.html?fileNumber=114110D1, and the Sunrise Analysis: Regulation of
Unaccredited Degree Granting Institutions http://files.hawaii.gov/auditor/Reports/2014/14-03.pdf. it supports the fact that Atlantic International University functions in accordance to the Hawaii Law. Notwithstanding, that it is recently accredited by ASIC. Therefore, the University is legitimate all other that follows are confusion of circumstance.

 

No worries mate, I didn’t take anything personal.

I’m happy to hear that all is good. Now, about this then:

Source, please.

Yupp, there is/was an Atlantic International University in Okija, Anambra State. The National Universities Commission, NUC, apparently wasn't too happy about that so it ended up on a list of universities operating illegally in Nigeria, together with, among others, Concepts University College London.

 

@mbwa shenzi. Let me retract that statement as to the "60 percent of AIU's students are from or lived in the UK." I would now say that 45% of it's students and Alumni are from or live in the US and 55% are from all other countries, hence the reason for probably selecting an international accreditation agency? This is my guess. It's a total of 5,825 students and alumni. There are 2,653 student/alumni's in the US and 3,172 are from different countries. .

See this analysis ---> https://www.linkedin.com/edu/alumni?name=Atlantic+International+University&trk=prof-edu-school-name

 

Oh, not at all. I'm just saying that some schools have done that in the past, and it's hard to recall a legitimate school doing it.

Of course you can. The literature is filled with examples. Also, we've seen many states where the authorities were doing anything but scrutinizing the schools operating within their jurisdictions. Length of operation proves nothing.

I'm making no statements about this school. But I'm refuting yours because they are not grounded.

 

Hold on, cowboy. Neither of those designations necessarily prove that a school is 'legitimate.' That concept is very much in the eye of the beholder. If one considers USDoE/CHEA-recognized accreditation as a form of legitimacy, then those two forms of recognition fail.

 

From the website: ATLANTIC INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY IS NOT ACCREDITED BY AN ACCREDITING AGENCY RECOGNIZED BY THE UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF EDUCATION. (Emphasis original)

Or is there some confusion with that?

The burden now shifts to the school to demonstrate that it is legitimate--again, a very subjective concept--despite a lack of accreditation. It can be done, so let's hear it.

 

But Rich, that's not the way our dear Legal Eagle is playing the game. You see he's just going to say, "If you have questions then you should go to the source." You see, he just wants to promote the school without having any burden of proof or responsibility. He's just going to say, "You're free to make up your own mind, blah, bladdy blah" Which of course is always true. And that's good because I wouldn't touch this school with a 100 foot pole. He wants to act like a spokesperson for the school right up until you ask a good question. He's just an anonymous shill. But . . . you already knew all that.

 

@kizmet, Really? come on now, let 's not accuse and start a making false accusations. If I were a shill then I would have answers. I thought this was a forum for discussion on a matter. You're making this more of a personal attacking game. Ganging up on the new guy to the forum. That's twice you said something slick and I didn't respond. I haven't once said anything towards any of you cats. Not cool. I'm posting my opinions and assumptions. I hate when folks use the Internet to poke their chest out for unnecessary reasons. I'm done as see where this conversation is going and I won't engage in it. Let's not play these Internet games. I will leave your forum now.

You all have a good one.

 

Posting anonymously 20 times promoting an unaccredited school certainly qualifies as shilling. But let's instead give you the benefit of the doubt. Please share your connection to the school.

I, for one, post under my real name and make my relevant affiliations clear. The fact that it's on the internet is irrelevant under those circumstances.

 

The funniest part about this is that this is exactly what he was doing himself, playing "Internet games." And I hadn't even really brought any heat yet. Oh well, somehow we'll manage to toil on.

back down

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abandon
accede
acquiesce
admit
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beg off
bow out
cancel
cave in
chicken out
concede
cop out
demur
give ground
give in
give up
go back on
have no fight left
hold back
pull back
pull out
recant
recoil
renege
resign
retreat
submit
surrender
take back
wimp out
withdraw
withdraw from agreement or statement
yield

 

Geez, you get some pushback and you walk away and you supposedly have a J.D. from Harvard Law?

 

This signifies that someone has been brainwashed since childhood by an institution making him or her to believe on "Accreditation" without understanding what it represents. What is state? and what is non-state actors? do they cooperate to make the world a better place? or do you want to be a lone State? Answering these question helps to understand the game of accreditation.

 

Well, it certainly sounds impressive enough but it's not all that clear to me what you actually mean. The game of accredition...is that what you think it is, a game?

 

I'm not going to delve into the semantics of the use of the word "game" here. It's fine if that's where others want to take the debate.

It has little to do with brainwashing, IMHO. Accreditation has its uses. At a minimum, most U.S. universities have basically drawn a line in the sand and said "Hey, we aren't going to accept transfer credits from unaccredited schools or schools with accreditation different from our own."

Also, most states have in place some sort of guideline that limits state employment or the issuance of a professional license by state boards to those who hold degrees that have an appropriate level of accreditation.

These are facts. These aren't philosophies to be debated. A degree from AIU is not going to qualify me to sit for the CPA exam in NYS. Flip side, of course, is neither will a bachelors from Ashworth (NA). My B.S. from AIU won't meet the qualifications for admission into an MBA program at virtually any RA school. Flip side, my B.S. from Penn Foster is going to run into a similar wall.

The difference is that a B.S. from an NA school, unlike a degree from AIU, would not get me slapped with a fine for including it on my resume in the states of Oregon or Texas.

Now, none of that means that a particular unaccredited school is "bad" or "illegitimate." There are schools that secured the approval of the state of Oregon to basically be considered the exceptions to the aforementioned rule. Likewise, I think it would be wise to consider state approved schools in states where approval is somewhat rigorous and does not include a religious exemption.

I can start a religious school and secure in exemption in Florida for a very small filing fee. If I want to pay more, I can do the same in Virginia. A school in NYS, however, has to follow more rigorous standards and cannot just exempt itself. A school that is state approved in Oregon would also be worth examining more closely because of the rigors imposed by the state.

The point is that an unaccredited school can do things to assure us (the public) of its quality in the absence of accreditation. One way they can do this is to win the approval of those strict states (like Oregon). But another way is to become licensure qualifying. Another would be to qualify for admission into a professional association whose name carries some gravitas in the field it supposedly represents.

These things provide assurances that the school is not simply a fly-by-night operation that is selling degrees or, perhaps more importantly, one that will become a diploma mill in the future.

Think of it like a restaurant; I open a restaurant and you ask "Is it good?"

I say, "Well, we've been open for 10 years and the department of health has yet to shut us down!"

Is that impressive? I think not.

But if your restaurant has positive reviews, a write-up in Food and Wine, and impeccable sanitation standards (easily expressed in areas that use the letter grading system) then maybe it's actually a good operation.

AIU has been around for a while. And I often thought of it as a diploma mill based largely upon its unaccredited status. But if AIU were to show me that their courses were rigorous and their programs accepted through any number of means I'd probably take a kinder view of it. But without accreditation you can't expect that I, as a potential student (consumer) should just give them the benefit of the doubt and hope they don't prove me wrong in the future.

 

Oh, side note, either accreditation matters or it doesn't. Pick a narrative.

If it doesn't matter then state your case as to how we can be sure that AIU is a quality institution without that external objective evaluation.

If accreditation does matter then stop trying to sell us a line about how a UK accrediting agency's responsibilities and authority in validating degrees are greater than they actually are.

From ASIC:

 

Recognized accreditation is a social construct. Almost everyone in the U.S. understands it to be the definitive gatekeeper regarding what is and is not a university. Which is why Hawaii requires schools like this to publish that disclaimer.