Athabasca or Yorkville for Counselling?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by BlueMason, Mar 21, 2017.

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  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Since Johann started talking about Delbert I had to check him out. I never heard of this musician before. Obviously he's been around for a million years so I couldn't listen to everything but I like "Better off with the blues." It feels biographical.
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks. I feel vindicated.

    (1) BlueMason concurs that you need a proper degree (and more besides) to become a Certified Counsellor in Ontario - and
    (2) Everyone likes Delbert McClinton.

    I just read that Delbert was inducted into the Texas Heritage Songwriters Hall of Fame in March 2011, along with Lee Roy Parnell (writer of Road Scholar), Bruce Channel (mentioned by airmanfirst), Gary Nicholson, and Cindy Walker.

    Another blues-oriented guy I like to hear is Tinsley Ellis. He grew up in South Florida. Worth a listen. :smile:

    BTW - airmanfirst, I'm sorry to report that Delbert did NOT write Bruce Channel's "Hey Baby." Bruce himself and Margaret Cobb are the writers. Delbert, who is a darn fine harmonica player, played that instrument on Bruce's hit recording. I checked 4-5 sources and did not find a writing credit for Delbert McClinton on this song. No worries - he did write plenty of others!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hey!_Baby

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2017
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Pretty much. Delbert McClinton is 76. Tinsley Ellis is a bit younger; I think he's 60. Ellis has a degree in history from Emory U. I think McClinton's only degrees are his "Master's in Rhythm, a minor in Soul and a PhD. in the Blues."

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2017
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    BTW - I've derailed this thread SO far I just started a new one "Degree in the Blues," q.v.

    J.
     
  5. airmanfirst

    airmanfirst New Member

    BTW - airmanfirst, I'm sorry to report that Delbert did NOT write Bruce Channel's "Hey Baby." Bruce himself and Margaret Cobb are the writers. Delbert, who is a darn fine harmonica player, played that instrument on Bruce's hit recording. I checked 4-5 sources and did not find a writing credit for Delbert McClinton on this song. No worries - he did write plenty of others!


    Damn, guess I'm busted back to E-2. 'As god is my witness I thought turkeys could fly' ... and McClinton wrote that song. A pal, in the day, had Hey Baby inscribed on the side of his cherry '53 Ford Sunliner. No flames, just Hey Baby.
     
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    No biggie, airmanfirst. Anyway, Delbert was ON the record - doesn't really matter if he wrote the song or not.

    That takes me back! :smile: I came to Canada (from England) as a kid in the early 50s and young guys here were just starting to put song titles on their cars. Back then, young guys in England didn't have cars. No money. Most of their dads (including mine) couldn't afford cars either. That's why my folks came here. Three months later - ta da! A car! Cash on the barrelhead, too. Couple of years -- a house! Magic! Paradise! :smile:

    J.

    PS. I remember my last school year in England, 1951-52. 52 kids in the class (!). How many parents had cars? TWO! IIRC, maybe four or five had phones.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2017
  7. Marg

    Marg New Member

    I completed 2 terms of Yorkville's MA in counselling psychology and the fact that it is a for-profit university matters a lot I believe. The tuition is over $40,ooo now for the 2.5 year program (increases about 6% every year), and there's about 20% or less completion rate (based on information YU provided that since program start in 2004, there are 2100 graduates and currently 1700 are enrolled - conservatively assuming enrollment started small).
    The school administrative attitude I'd characterize as hostile. The program advertises as flexible for working professionals. However, if in any one week, someone misses answering one of the online questions, its an automatic fail of the (5-week) course. If one assignment is late without prearranged extension (laptop blow up, whatever), no excuse, automatic fail of the course. If two courses are failed you are automatically expelled from the program. Helps explain the high dropout.
    The list of rigid rules and misleading advertisement compared to the experience in the program goes on. When applying, one of my references was someone who years before I'd supervised briefly (we were both at different companies at the time she provided a reference). They required I get a new reference (rigid but ok) but then my application was complete one day late and I was told I could not start until 4 months later. Huge cost and logistical impact. I was denied academic credit for relevant graduate courses. Biggest issue was that they vastly misrepresented their role in providing practicum (all responsibility is on the student), and they make clear once in the program that it is NOT a psychology degree (can't be used towards a PhD or psychologist designation) but only a counselling degree. Hmmm... not MA of psychological counselling??
    I don't now athabasca but I believe that people considering yorkville should be aware of some of the problems.
     
  8. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Counselling is not regulated in most provinces in Canada so technically you don't need a degree. However, the MA in Counselling Psychology can help you to become a certified Canadian counsellor that is recognized by many employers so it can a good option if you are looking for employment as a counsellor in an institution like a school. However, if you want to be self employed, many people just take private training from private institutes and it would be a lot cheaper and good enough to get liability insurance and become a member of a counselling association.
    The problem with counselling is that is not covered by most insurance companies so most people would use a psychologist and not a counsellor. As many psychologist are having a hard time getting work, I can see that counsellors would have even a harder time getting work.
    I still think that the counselling degree can a good option for teachers, religion ministers and human resources professionals so it can be a nice addition to an existing career but if someone is looking for a counselling psychology career then the PhD in Psychology would the ideal option.
     
  9. Marg

    Marg New Member

    Hi. You've said
    "Counselling is not regulated in most provinces in Canada so technically you don't need a degree. However, the MA in Counselling Psychology can help you to become a certified Canadian counsellor that is recognized by many employers so it can a good option if you are looking for employment as a counsellor in an institution like a school... "​

    Actually, counselling / psychotherapy is now regulated provincially (e.g. College of Registered Psychotherapists of Ontario; CRPO) and newly evolving regulations are quite strict. There are private institutes that meet those government regulations and some of these are quite good. Yorkville does not allow people to do counselling with children as part of their program so it is not a good training for school counselling. A PhD in Psychology is indeed the route people should take and Yorkville is very clear (once you are in) that their program does not qualify you to get into a PhD program. It costs more than a regular MA in psychology and is indeed difficult (picky and huge amount of work) and is not a high value degree nor provide quality skills training.
     
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Psychotherapy yes but not counselling, there are two different things. I am not too sure if the MA in Counselling Psychology would qualify you to become a psychotherapist as the training is different.
    In any case, both psychotherapy and counselling are not covered by most insurance companies so the first thought for a person with insurance would be to see a psychologist first.
    Few provinces need a PhD in Psychology to become a psychologists so the MA in Counselling becomes an option for those that they lack the psychologist background but are not interested to practice licensed psychology.
    I believe there is a strong market for it such as people working already working in universities, schools, hospitals, etc.
     
  11. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    You're incorrect here on a couple of things:
    Counselling is covered by many of insurance companies, e.g.:
    • Belmont Health & Wealth
    • Great-West Life
    • Green Shield Canada
    • Manulife
    • Medavie Blue Cross
    • SunLife
    Provided the counsellor is registered with the CCC. Now, if you work for the federal government, then the only sessions it will pay for are if the counsellor is either a counsellor with a MA in Social Work or a licensed Psychologist.

    You are correct that few provinces require a psychologist to have a PhD/Doctorate to register as a psychologist and a masters is a minimum - but you have to check the province you're in in terms of what is required to register as a psychologist with a non-psychology masters. Some provincial regulatory bodies do not recognize an online degree to register as a psychologist; some require that masters degree to have required an undergrad in psychology / humanities or the like (must have a certain number of undergrad psychology courses) as is the case with your typical B&M clinical psychology masters.

    Alberta is wide open - it will accept the York U degree to register as a psychologist; many other provinces won't unless you were already a licensed by another province (say you registered in Alberta as a psychologist, and have X years experience as a registered psychologist there, you can then apply to another province to register as a psychologist which wouldn't normally accept York U's degree).

    Adler.ca, for example, offers a transitional program if you don't have a 4 year UG in Psy ( http://adler.ca/index.php/psychology/prospective-students/programs/transitional-equivalency ) and you can then apply for their MPsy (http://adler.ca/index.php/psychology/prospective-students/programs/master-of-psychology). Their degree can cost you about $50 - which doesn't include costs to come to Toronto and stay there while you attend classes. Yes, the ROI is quite evident as it is a huge commitment.

    Based on my research, you can not call yourself a psychologist unless you are registered with a provincial body.. that would be misleading to potential clients...

    I would also urge anyone looking at York U to keep looking elsewhere - there are MUCH better options out there.
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Just to be clear, York University is a public research university in Toronto, 3rd-biggest in Canada. They are mid-ranked in Canada, quite respectable internationally. York's Osgoode School of Law is usually #1 or #2 in the nation.
    What we're discussing here is Yorkville University, a private online school with recognition from New Brunswick. The two schools are both legitimate, but otherwise not really comparable. Think Columbia University vs. Columbia Southern.
     
  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Great information, thanks for sharing it. I just want to add that not all the insurance companies will pay for a counselor in all provinces, so you need to make sure that insurance in question will pay in your province of residence.
    The CCC certification is not the only certification accepted by insurance companies, there are quite a few out there and each has a different criteria, not all of them need degrees.
    The YorkVille degree is a good option but if money is an issue, there are other cheaper alternatives. One option is to get a Masters degree in a related area to counselling such as social work and then an ordained minister credential, this qualifies you as pastoral counsellor. Some insurance companies also accept pastoral counselling.


     
  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I agree, the OP confused Yorkville with York, I suspect that Yorkville selected this name for the same reason, most people taking a quick look at a resume would confuse it as well with York. Maybe we should open a school with a name such as McGillVille, LavalVille, RyersonVille, etc.
     
  15. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Yes, you cannot call yourself psychologist but you can put in your business card "MA in Counselling Psychology" and this is fine. Counselling is not regulated in most provinces but the CCC certification required mainly if you want the insurance to pay. Many people just use a Psychology degree to be a counselor and never register as a psychologist, not everyone is interested in charging an insurance company.
     
  16. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    McGillVille!

    I like it.
     
  17. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    You can always add place names to make a school sound legit too.

    McGill Southern University

    Central McGill University

    You could also just add names to it and try to play it off like it's the proper name.

    For example, we know that Leland Stanford Jr. University is legit though it is known more widely as Stanford University.

    I'm sure that at first glance James Morgan McGill University could be interpreted as the full official name of the respected institution in Montreal instead of a fan tribute to Better Call Saul.
     
  18. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    Sorry, I didn't confuse the two but I did make a typo - Yorkville U in New Brunswick is the for-profit one at which I had a poor experience. I would recommend looking at other schools which offer similar degrees and which enjoy a better reputation.
     

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