Ashford University receives WASC accrediation

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Shawn Ambrose, Jul 11, 2013.

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  1. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Saying something might've/could've happened versus saying something did happen are two different things. But, given Ashford's past, the suggestion of the possibility of bad behavior is not without history since they have been connected to securities fraud and a number of other not-so-wonderful dealings.

    If a robber robbed a bank and was convicted, and then after that he opened an elaborate store, would it be a stretch to suggest the possibility that he may have stolen the money to do it? Certainly not, because his history of stealing money is already known. It doesn't mean he stole the money this time to fund the store, nor would bringing up the possibility be a direct accusation that he definitely did it, it just means that it's not out of the realm of possibility given his history, and that such a miraculous development carries some suspicion as a result of that history.
     
  2. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    I seem to recall predicting this. In fact, last time I debated this with Maxwell I went out and bought shares in BPI, at the low, low price of just over $8.00 per. As of now it is trading at just under $16 per share. Easy money... ;)

    And as an AU grad, yes I do feel a little better knowing they have this issue settled and no, I never had a doubt about the quality of the school (since I of course had such a good experience myself). Now, to cash out or keep riding the wave? :)
     
  3. Michael

    Michael Member

    The fact remains that Ashford still accepts far too many illiterate students.
     
  4. LGFlood

    LGFlood New Member

    Michael, if this is true, I don't believe Ashford is exclusive in this regard. At Liberty, I have seen my share of discussion boards authored by graduate students who don't appear to have passed Kindergarten.
     
  5. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Michael, obviously the concept of an "open" university escapes you.
     
  6. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    friendorfoe (Cajun)! It's great to see you back. Stick around why don't you!
     
  7. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Thanks Jonathan, it's been a while. I'll probably only be popping in for a couple of days though. Super busy at work and I've cut my social networking down dramatically...it's amazing how much time that freed up. :)

    I've been doing the advanced certificate program at Stanford too, I'll post about that sometime in the next year once I complete it since I know there have been people interested in it (which is why I popped back in, to see if anyone has written about it).
     
  8. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    True, but open enrollment is a larger matter as many people admitted to these programs flat-out don't belong in college even if they are literate, lacking the motivation and discipline to do the work. Many of these students showed up to an online program thinking it was going to be easy simply because it's online.

    But the real issue is that schools like Ashford allow students to stay and get sufficient enough grades to obtain a degree when they can't even put together a coherent sentence or spell simple words. As I've mentioned in the past, when I was there a Professor actually posted a poorly written essay by a student as an example of what a quality essay should be, giving it an 'A'. It was full of misspelled words, terrible sentence structure, and reasoning that you would expect from an elementary school student, not a college student.
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Unlike anonymous posters, I have real experience with this issue.

    "Open" universities take all comers who meet minimum standards and have the means (or can borrow the means).

    My first-hand experience at the undergraduate level is that a lot of crap goes in, but the students who finish have done real degrees and have earned them.

    My first-hand experience with master's students is that they're not unlike those at other schools. Having done a bachelor's degree as a prerequisite tends to do that.

    My problem with the for-profits is with those undergraduates who are not well-prepared for collegiate study, don't get taught and caught up, then drop out.

    At the time I was working at one of these schools, our break-even point (the point where our variable revenues exceeded our variable costs and amortized the fixed costs thus far) was three classes. If we had students who stayed past three classes, the university made a profit.

    What of it? Well, when I began teaching at this school, they didn't take people with no transfer credits. But in order to go after that market, they implemented a series of introductory courses (for credit) to break these people in. These courses were easy, and were waived if you already had 20 s.h. of transfer credit. How many courses? Five. Two more than the break-even.

    There's a lot of profits to be realized in NOT delivering a degree.
     
  10. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Makes sense, Ashford's MBA program does not begin the infamous "quantitative hump" until after you have completed 3 courses, 1 of which is usually an intro type class. None of them "hard skills" oriented. After that, the 6 months of quantitative "hard skills" courses effectively eliminated about 2/3rds of the class size. As a side offering though, MBA students could drop to a Masters of Organizational Management (the "moms") which required no quantitative or strategy courses.

    It seems since I have graduated Ashford actually increased the difficulty to obtain an MBA a little bit more, requiring even more coursework. It's a rock solid MBA program. It's also a brutal experience for those with anything less than 100% commitment. Their accounting class was the first and only time I’ve ever hired a personal tutor as I almost had to drop due to grades. The accelerated format of the courses makes catching up on work almost impossible.
     
  11. Michael

    Michael Member

    Friend, obviously the concept of a "university" escapes you.
     
  12. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Wow Michael, what a zinger. How long did that one take you?

    Let's see, "university" = "an institution of higher learning providing facilities for teaching and research and authorized to grant academic degrees; specifically : one made up of an undergraduate division which confers bachelor's degrees and a graduate division which comprises a graduate school and professional schools each of which may confer master's degrees and doctorates" (Merriam-Webster <they do dictionaries and stuff>).

    I assume (since you did not outright state it) that "university" is synonymous with “exclusive” (at worst) or “selective” (at best) when in fact neither is true (see above definition). In fact, the largest “university” in the United Kingdom is the “Open University”, famous for getting into the distance education game early on (in fact they claim to be the world’s first “distance teaching university”) and being, you guessed it, “open” enrollment to whoever wished to pursue a degree from their fine, forward thinking school.

    Now you know what an open university is. You're welcome.
     
  13. recruiting

    recruiting Member

    "I'm not defending Ashford . I have absolutely no opinion about the school.

    I am, however, defending the process of argument.

    A lack of evidence is not evidence.

    Just because you made a baseless accusation doesn't make it true if no one refutes it. It remains baseless and, thus, false. If you have evidence that such a thing occurred, you should provide it. Otherwise, it just isn't true.

    And just because no one refutes your baseless accusation, that doesn't mean anyone is asserting that "Ashford 's dealings are always legit."

    Finally, I'm not defending Ashford . But what you said is legally actionable, and I'd like to see your evidence for it. Got any?"


    I am of the same opinion. Well said .
     
  14. recruiting

    recruiting Member

    Can you prove this statement other than accusations or because Max says so?
     
  15. Michael

    Michael Member

    So, you're implying I'm lying? For what purpose would I be lying? I don't have to prove anything to an anonymous person on the internet.

    Having said that, I am a TA for Ashford, and what I said is factual.
     
  16. Michael

    Michael Member


    See bold: It took me about as long as it took you to come up with yours.
     
  17. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member


    Got me, I have met my intellectual better. I concede defeat.

    At least now the relationship between an open university and “illiterate” students can be better understood for anyone who may be following this thread. “Illiterate” students does not translate to “illiterate” graduates.
     
  18. Michael

    Michael Member

    Possibly.

    The last course I worked, three-fourths had dropped by the third week.
     
  19. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    For a bribe to succeed, there need to be two dishonest parties -- not just one. And I would like to think that WASC is trustworthy (regardless of what I may think about Ashford). So I don't think the bribery scenario is credible.

    But it is worth noting that the growth of for-profit education corporations has greatly increased the financial stakes involved with accreditation decisions. For example, BPI stock instantly jumped by 26% as soon as the WASC decision was announced. That represented an increase in BPI's market capitalization of around $180,000,000. And if you think that's high, note that BPI's market cap fell by around $380,000,000 in July 2012, when WASC initially denied Ashford's application for accreditation.

    So literally hundreds of millions of dollars have been riding on WASC's decisions with respect to Ashford University. This doesn't mean that the accreditation system is tainted, but it does mean that incentives for abuse may exist.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2013
  20. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    I have 0% doubt that the incentive for abuse exists and is probably somewhat exploited. However from a simple business perspective, it was "do or die" on management's part because they are a publicly traded company. More than corruption, I think "profit" is the biggest motivator in the world and people will bend over backwards for the sake of the almighty dollar. Cultural change for the sake of change is almost impossible, it is "difficult" when there is a profit motive, it is "difficult but often done" when survival is as stake. BPI has a huge credit line, major assets, low debt to cash flow (comparatively speaking) and I just saw no way that a business with that much liquidity would fail. Even if they simply threw money at the problem, someone would pick up the mantle and run with it. I only saw the changes as an investor, reading the reports, listening to the recorded calls quarterly, etc. I definitely saw a push for more quality and a desire to exceed the expectations of the US Dept. of Ed and the accreditors.

    The irony (as I see it) is that as a “for profit” school Ashford will still be viewed with suspicion by many, however the actual standards they have agreed to meet (and scrutiny they are under) exceed those that non-profit schools are required to meet (and probably demonstrate) even though they are accredited by the same accreditation body, if for no other reason than to satisfy the Title IV restrictions placed upon them. For an example of what I am talking about, look how utterly rigorous their MBA has become. I took their MBA when it was only 12 courses and it was no walk in the park. Now? Now, it’s just ridiculous.

    But at the end of the day this is and always will be about money. Both for non-profit and for profit schools alike, this isn’t about some altruistic greater good but about money and BPI has lots of that to throw around.
     

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