Are they really "doctors"?

Quibble? One ought not include both "Dr." and "Ph.D." in a signature line or business card.

 

My problem with this is the mix of academic and professional connotations here.

I worked in a hospital once and we had a guest speaker. She was an RN with a PhD. We did NOT address her--or refer to her--as "doctor" in that setting. I hope the reasons are obvious.

I contend that the same situation and criteria apply to the counselor-with-a-PhD-who-isn't-licensed-as-a-psychologist thingy. In that setting, "doctor" means "psychologist" or "psychiatrist." It does not mean "call me 'doctor' because I have a degree outside the scope of my licensed practice." That same person working in a setting (like academia) where the use of his/her academic title is appropriate would be a different matter. That's why I'm "Doctor Douglas" when I do work for my university client, and "Mister Douglas" when the dental assistant calls me back for a check-up. It's not that hard.

 

Well...there are a couple of problems with an LHMC calling himself "Doctor" that we haven't mentioned. One is that the medical board might decide that you're mis-representing yourself as a physician. That’s a fight you might win but not one you want to have. More likely would be the psychology board coming after you. Less serious but if they made the charge stick your own board might take it as an ethical violation.

 

Here is Texas' rule for physical therapists wanting to use the doctor title.

https://ptot.texas.gov/1-can-i-use-the-title-doctor-if-i-have-a-dpt-phd-or-other-doctoral-level-degree/

 

Yes. Read that warning very carefully.

 

Oklahoma's rule below. LPCs can use "doctor" in advertisements. They must make it clear that they're an LPC. They cannot use "doctor" if the degree is neither in counseling nor a closely-related field. This is in line with American Counseling Association guidance.

(c) The use of doctoral degrees and the title "Doctor". An LPC
may use the doctoral degree and the title "Doctor" in advertising,
practice and status as a counselor, if the doctoral degree is in
counseling or a closely related mental health field, and if the
degree was granted by a regionally accredited college or
university recognized by the United States Department of
Education.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ok.gov/behavioralhealth/documents/Permanent%2520Rules%2520-%2520LPC%2520-%25209-11-2016.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiC2P-gnK__AhVxkmoFHdLKB8o4ChAWegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw1tFId_bEoioVAg10GmbZfr

 

So, Oxford is out.

 

According to Texas regulations, a Nurse Practitioner is not permitted to use the title "Dr." to indicate their DNP (Doctor of Nursing Practice) degree. However, they are allowed to use the title "Dr." if they possess a PhD, but they must also clearly state that they are a Nurse Practitioner.

Thats seems like a nice middle ground

 

Actually the US Dept of Education does recognize the University of Oxford.

 

Of course it does. I think Stanislav's comment referred to an Oklahoma document sanantone was quoting, which said in part:
"regionally accredited college or university recognized by the United States Department of Education."

Oxford can not be categorized as a (US) "regionally accredited college or university." Despite its venerated name, it does not have US Regional Accreditation. I'm sure, though, that if Oxford WANTED US Regional Accreditation, it could be arranged. There are a few offshore schools that do have US Regional Accreditation, e.g. Amity University, in Noida, Uttar Pradesh, India.

 

One other thing: I could use a break from the personal crap. I took some in the face in this thread from someone I doubt I've ever said anything personal about (except positive things). I have strong opinions about issues, but I don't like being called things like "ignorant" or "trolling."

 

This guy has his MBBS and Ph.D. But they refer to him as Mister. That's the UK for you!

https://www.highgatehospital.co.uk/consultant/mr-adam-rosenthal/

 

Right. That's usual, with UK doctors. You call general practitioners "Dr." and some specialists, all Heads of this-or-that, etc. are "Mr. / Ms." I think it's somehow connected with driving on the LEFT side of the road. It's probably in the Magna Carta of 1215.

 

If you examine Psychology Today listings to find therapists, you will find many therapists (such as MFT, etc.) who introduce themselves with a title that includes their doctorate and their licensure. CAMFT, the California organization for Licensed Marriage Family Therapists had a president in the recent past who was listed as Dr. and was an LMFT with a doctorate from Cal Coast. Seems CAMFT would be up to speed on what was acceptable.

 

There is a difference between what is right or wrong and what is permitted or not. When it comes to a personal level, I'm fine with what is permitted. Even if I think something should not be, I prefer people be able to act according to the rules of the situation. This is why I would never call out an individual for doing something I don't like if it is legal, compliant, etc.

Legal systems are hacked all the time. This is a hack. But in many cases (like with tax law), hacks become part of the system and even accepted. (We often call them "loopholes.") I think this is a hack that should be shut down because I think it is deceptive to use an academic title to imply a standing in a profession that one does not have. But again, I would never assail someone's use of that hack where it is permitted. That's their business, not mine.

 

The honorifics and professional courtesy titles are used very differently in the UK compared to the USA. "Mr." is a mark of distinction. I learned that some old-line Oxford teachers were offended when called "Doctor" like some of their colleagues who were more influenced by the American system. I found this in the online Oxford Reference (from the Oxford University Press):

"Surgeons in the UK do not use the title Doctor and are referred to, as a mark of distinction, as Mr, Mrs, or Ms. . . . See also consultant."
https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095724299

 

So -- it wasn't in the Magna Carta after all. Quelle surprise! Thanks, Suss.

 

From Bears' Guide, 14th edition, page 10:

The Canadian mathematician and humorist Stephen Leacock writes that shortly after he received his PhD he was on board a cruise ship. When a lovely young lady fainted, the call went out, "Is there a doctor on board?" Leacock says he rushed to the captain's cabin, but he got there too late. Two D.D.s's and an S.T.D. had gotten there before him.