Are partisan politics good for America?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by tigerhead, Dec 28, 2005.

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  1. tigerhead

    tigerhead New Member

    I find myself wondering if are political system is effective? Does each party spend too much time and energy trying to make the other look bad? Does our political system give us balance or does it act to further divide us? Would it not be more effective to colaborate and work together to solve problems and move our nation forward?
     
  2. lspahn

    lspahn New Member

    They all suck.

    This thing now with the domestic spying is total crap too. Typical Partisanship. Do i have problem with a president with that kind of power..hell yeah. But to say he broke the law by doing what everyone else did is just typical. Both sides have this idea that what is ok for them is not OK for the opposition. Look at John Wayne McCain. He attached the Torture bill to the money for the troops. Then cried foul when they attached the drilling...and it was a guy on his "team"

    Once again....everyone find a new party!!!
     
  3. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Yes.

    It is. Fear not.

    Probably. But that's the way the game is played. Nothing new, here.

    Yes.

    Yes... as it should be in some cases. Peace at all costs is not what the founding fathers had in mind.

    The current system usually leads, by hook or by crook, to that. Do not underestimate its long-term capabilities.

    Our current system does exactly that. No changes necessary...

    ...except maybe restoring a few things to the way they were before the kind of thinking that's motivating these questions changed such things as, for example, establishing term limits. The vote of the citizenry is all the term limiting that anyone needs. Voting is the imposition of term limits. Everything else is artificial, unnecessary and really does help screw things up!

    Or so it is merely my opinion.
     
  4. lspahn

    lspahn New Member

    Cant agree more about term limits. If they knew they had limited time it would hopefully curb some partisan ineffectiveness and may even stop some level of corruption.
     
  5. THEGOALIE

    THEGOALIE New Member

    par·ti·san1 ( P ) n.

    -A fervent, sometimes militant supporter or proponent of a party, cause, faction, person, or idea.
    -A member of an organized body of fighters who attack or harass an enemy, especially within occupied territory; a guerrilla.

    How is this good for our country? If politicians only support the party line, then it becomes a "we are right, you are wrong" philosophy, and it causes too much poison to be injected into the situation. People need to be able to think clearly, and solve problems. Instead, we have too much political rhetoric, and fewer problems getting solved.

    If the Democrats say "We need to start bringing troops home" we hear the Republicans call them Anti-Americans, and when Republicans talk about cutting taxes we hear the Democrats chime in about how they are the party of the rich, and want to screw the little guy that works hard.

    Washington at times reminds me of Kindergarten where two kids are having a disagreement will say "You're a booger eater" and the other kid says "You have skunk feet". Of course, you can also find this kind of logic and rhetoric in marriages, business, and other relationships as well.

    Getting back to the point in question, it's become a system without a lot of new ideas. Instead, one party comes up with something, the other opposes it. Yet, what we need is more ideas on the table in order to come up with resolutions that will help one and all.

    Many times we can get so attached to an idea or belief system, that we no longer see the problems with it, and if we are blinded by passion, or partisanship, then the odds of us making a fundamental shift in our thinking to put a better idea into action is very limited, if not impossible.
     
  6. tigerhead

    tigerhead New Member

    Re: Re: Are partisan politics good for America?

     
  7. gkillion

    gkillion New Member

    Re: Re: Are partisan politics good for America?

    But it's not a game. It's a war. The Democrats want to play games with soldiers lives. They whine about so called torture, they whine about spying on suspected terrorists, they whine about anything they can come up with. Their sole purpose is to embarrass Bush at any cost. Everything they do is designed to impede our ability to execute the war on terror. I honestly can't find any evidence that Democrats want to win the war. They've invested their entire political futures on America's failure. Hell, even Saddam's Lawyers are using the Democrat mantra in his defense.

    So...no, in this and most cases, partisan politics is not good for the country.
     
  8. B.N.

    B.N. Member

    Re: Re: Re: Are partisan politics good for America?

    The US can't "win" this war with force. Every time the US "executes it's abilities" and kills a terrorist it results in 5 or 10 new terrorists and more of it's own losses. That's a lossing battle. Torturing people won't improve that algorithm.

    The only ones "winning" from this war are those with monetary ties to the organizations making billions of dollars out of loss of life and destruction.

    Everyone else losses.

    As far as the partisan politics ... both sides tend to point fingers more than solve problems. The US government tends to favor the people that contribute the most to the politicians, both sides. If you contribute enough you get what you want. If you can't contribute, well, who cares, we'll cut social security, medicare, verteran's benefits, public education etc. etc, screw you poor people, and instead give these billions of dollars to the private organizations we're affiliated with to make ourselves and our friends even richer. Is that best for America, in the short-run, in the long-run, somehow I doubt it. I have to agree with THEGOALIE
     
  9. lspahn

    lspahn New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Are partisan politics good for America?

    If we had applied that logic we would have never defeated Japan in WWII, they were just as dedicated and fanatical. And unfortunatly for the Democrates we are winning. I anyone with any sense can see the the amazing progress that has been made. I mean in 3 years we have: Invaded a Sizable Nation. Dispossed a Dictator, Completed "Major" Operations, Appointed a temp Gov., Held THREE elections including one that elected a permanent paralmentrary government, had an incredibly low rate of casualties, Sunni are TALKING to Kurds within the Govt, and so on . How do you define a win?

    Torture. Its funny, everyone who know anything about torture says people talk. Everyone who has no experience with torture says it doesnt work. I mean if they were airline pilots who would you believe???? Even John McCain conceds that people talk under torture because he agreed to the "ticking timebomb" pervision. Why would he do that? Because he know when those butthead were jamming bamboo shards under his finger nails he was singing like a canary...

    As for the monetary gains...I think LBJ( A dem i believe) probably made more than anyone..Love those Bell Helicopters.....

    We will have to wait till next November to see what happens, but if the Democrates dont come up with something sides "Anything but what Bush wants" they are going to loose. Even Sen.Shumer said they dont have ANY ideas "but will release our agenda in early 2006" and Pelosi said "They wont have a position on Iraq". This just solidifies the statement that they are obstructionist and it is becoming very apparent. If they dont get there act together the Rep may get there 60 seats in the Senate and then Teddy and Johnny K wont even need to show up for work because they wont need them there.

    If they (Democrats) had some funcitonal ideas with a plan I would definatly welcome it. The one BIG problem with partisan politics is when someone does come up with a better idea. Either side is capable of doing that, and it is a given that the other side will ignore there proposal


    I think calling the Dems Anti-Americain is wrong (except for maybe Dean..wink, wink), its a difference of opinion of what America is. Some people think America should be strong, stand tall, and do whats best for us, then other want us to be Limp Noodle, Europeon like, UN flunkies. I think history is INCREDIBLY clear about how to obtain peace. Peace is obtained when one side realizes that if they frag with the other they will kick there a$$. Sorry, but thats how it is. Does that suck, sure. I hate the fact that some people (including some of us) need a slap in the head to get the message...

    Just my opinion, and I surely have been wrong before. I personally dont want to see a govt totally dominated by the Rany one side (except maybe the Libertarians...another issue). We need a certain level of balance and dissent to be functional.
     
  10. gkillion

    gkillion New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Are partisan politics good for America?

    You're gonna have to provide some documentation to back-up this statement.
     
  11. B.N.

    B.N. Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are partisan politics good for America?

    So is the solution to drop a nuc on Baghdad or some other town in Iraq killing hundreds of thousands of innocent bystanders.

    I'm sure it works. I doubt there are very many people who could withstand torture. If we are allowed to torture others, should others be allowed to capture and torture American citizens? Could they enter our country and then just pick some people up at the local Walmart and torture them? What about unarmed military? armed military?

    I'm sure there are many dems and many reps making many $ on the whole process.

    I don't think we can continue to think the same as we did in the past with the technology which is available today and will be tomorrow. The destructive capabilities of both sides of a conflict are growing and growing. At one point this type of reasoning has to end or else we'll end up killing ourselves. Another type or form of peace needs to be found.

    This is just my second post in the politics forum. I've never actually spent time in here before because I generally prefer not to discuss politics (consider most politicians to be corrupt and selfish, not just American but in general) but for some reason I decided to check it out today.

    Just my thoughts.
    Brandon
     
  12. B.N.

    B.N. Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are partisan politics good for America?

    What I meant is that when the US kills known terrorists or innocent bystanders, the hate of America is bred and spread in these countries. This in turn (I believe) leads to more terrorists, more people who hate America and are willing to die for this hate. This in turn (I believe) results in more warfare where also Americans as well as others will/do die, maybe not in a week or two or even a year. But such strong hate is hard to conquer. Specially if they can tie this hate together with religious fanaticism.

    I'm not sure if there is specific documentation on this, I've read stuff about it but I no longer remember where/when.

    Take it for what it is, just my .02
    Brandon
     
  13. lspahn

    lspahn New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are partisan politics good for America?

    Of course not, just pointing out that this is not the first time we have faced "crazy" people. It is obvious now that the public supports democracy based on election turnouts so they are not the problem. In Japan the public was in full fanatical support of the Japanese War machine, very different situations. They had the whole population training to fight us. BUT If i had a choice between a Million US troops and 10 million ANYBODIES I would drop the bomb..Sorry...

    People capture and torture our soldiers all the time, that is nothing new. This is very clear cut to me, people who are not US citizens are NOT PROTECTED BY OUR CONSTITUTION. You are, I am, and alot of people here are, but not people from other countries. This seems to be hard for people to understand. If they know we wont torture them they wont talk, period. Im personally for religous torture. Hangem over a pig pen a lower them in head first. The english put down the Iraqi's by dipping bullets in pig fat. Thats just not PC to talk advantge of people like that, except when people are using our culture against us.

    No Doubt...But some folks want to act like its one side and not the other..There is a reason politician put investments in a blind trust..Thanks to LBJ

    We are actually very restrained now. I read somewere that one US Bomber now has more firepower than a whole squad of WWII planes. We use smartbombs effectivily to REDUCE civilian casualties. We do use it effectivly, but i do agree that our ability to kill each other is more efficient now than ever before.


    Amen! Power defenatly Corrupts, and those 530+ in Washington are a prime example.
     
  14. gkillion

    gkillion New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are partisan politics good for America?

    OK, "terrorists" and "innocent bystanders" are not the same thing. It's the terrorists who kill (and torture) innocent bystanders, not the military. The military kills terrorists. Unfortunately, sometimes innocents are killed by the military, but those instances are few and far between.

    Believe me, the terrorists already hate us. No matter how many of them we kill, they will not hate us any more than they already do. This war is a result of their hatred for us, not the other way around.

    Let's not forget who the "bad guys" are here.
     
  15. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    My view of partisan politics in the United States has changed tremendously over the last few years.

    In the past I always sensed that beneath the partisan bickering, Americans shared things in common. I trusted that in a crisis, people would pull together in community and common purpose.

    Today, I'm less sure. Politics is no longer a means to an end. It's become the end itself.

    Even the gravest events no longer have significance in themselves. They are nothing but ammunition. Their importance lies in whether they move the poll numbers or influence the red-blue balance.

    When Americans argue about Iraq, in most cases they aren't even interested in that country. What fascinates them are the domestic political personalities involved and their struggles for pack leadership.

    Somehow the Democrats and Republicans have become our national crips and bloods. Americans display their red or blue gang colors and the media are filled with rhetorical drive-bys.

    The entire world, and all of human life, have become a giant video-game for Americans, with domestic election results the score.
     
  16. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are partisan politics good for America?


    Wow! Talk about typical Republican word twisting. B.N. never accused American soldiers of being "bad guys".


    Abner
     
  17. gkillion

    gkillion New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are partisan politics good for America?

    I'm debating substantive facts and you wanna nitpick my choice of words.

    He was suggesting that the terrorists hate us because we are at war with them (talk about typical). This war began because of their hatred for us.

    Sounds a bit like the people who said we bought 9/11 on ourselves.
     
  18. BinkWile

    BinkWile New Member

    President George Washington believed that political parties would be detrimental to the American public, as it would stray from a presentation of opposing ideas to political maneuvering to gain/retain power.

    Our founding fathers had quite the foresight huh????
     
  19. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Yeah... especially when one of them wrote:
    • "How prone all human institutions have been to decay; how subject the best-formed and most wisely organized governments have been to lose their check and totally dissolve; how difficult it has been for mankind, in all ages and countries, to preserve their dearest rights and best privileges, impelled as it were by an irresistible fate of despotism."

      -- James Monroe, speech in the Virginia
      Ratifying Convention, June 10, 1788
    It's like he saw the Bush administration coming.
     
  20. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member



    Amen to that!


    Abner
     

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