Andersonville

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Guest, May 1, 2002.

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  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

  2. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

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    Make that Andersonville Theological Seminary. And as to wondering why, I’ve been doing much more than that; I’ve been agonizing and losing sleep over it. ;)

    The only reason I can come up with is that their accreditor, ACI (Accrediting Commission International, of Beebe, Arkansas), has had an epiphany and has decided to cancel the accreditation of all Baptist schools. Andersonville, in a mad rush, changed its name, rather than risk loosing such a valuable endorsement. :D

    Either that, or because the telephone book listed them as ABS, they got tired of getting a lot of phone calls asking for an estimate on a brake job. :D

    Now, does this mean they will have to change their listing with the Library of Congress? I’m sure they wouldn’t want to loose that valuable recognition either. :D :D :D
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    So why has ACI dropped all Baptist schools?
     
  4. Gert Potgieter

    Gert Potgieter member

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    It was a joke, Jimmy.

    I like this statement from the site: "By the grace of God and common sense, we are able to keep your educational cost down to a minimum."
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi, Gert,

    It's been a long and busy day and I missed the word "epiphany."
     
  6. Craig Hargis

    Craig Hargis New Member

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    Well, they have not had educational integrity; so why have denominational integrity? I am sure they would say that it is to better serve evangelical students who do not consider themselves Baptist. I expect it is to escape the, in some circles, perjorative connotations associated with the word "Baptist." Just as many formerly Baptist churches now call themselves "Bible" or "Community" churches.. In short, they want to get "students" that might not want to listen to tapes, I mean study, at a "Baptist" school.

    Craig, who attends a ------- church:)
     
  7. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

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    Re: Re: Andersonville

    Of course, their new acronymn is ATS, which also happens to stand for Association of Theological Schools, the "gold" of recognized religious accreditors. Perhaps it's wishful thinking or a Freudian slip on the part of the Andersonville people? :D


    Bruce
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Re: Andersonville

    This would be of great detriment to the overall credibility of Andersonville's degree programs. Can you imagine how many students would drop the program if ATS lost ACI accreditation? :cool:
     
  9. StevenKing

    StevenKing Member

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    Truth about seminary found in GA

    Last year, my wife and I were deep in the quagmire of trying to find a new church. After the service was over at one of our "hopefuls," we met with the pastor. He extolled his great love for the Lord, passion for evangelism, and commitment to biblical exegesis. Glancing up at the certificate that adorned his office wall - I read in horror Master of Divinity, Andersonville Baptist Seminary

    What an easy way to strike a potential church off one's short list.

    :D

    Steven King
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Steve,

    How well did he preach? Were his grammar and syntax all right? Was the sermon intellectually oriented? By the way, I used to live near Ft. Gordon, in Augusta.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Truth about seminary found in GA

    I agree with you Steven. On the surface it makes you question the person's judgement, intelligence, or ethical issues.

    So many affordable and accredited options. Zeeesh!

    North

     
  12. StevenKing

    StevenKing Member

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    Jimmy,
    IIRC, he seemed able to communicate in the way one would expect for a minister. Having heard him speak only once I really don't feel qualified to judge his intellectual framework.

    As North pointed out in his reply, I have to wonder if ministers seeking unaccredited degrees do so for the financial savings - or -or do they fear the amount of legitimate work they must do otherwise? With all the great, largely unquestioned programs in existence: why choose something the bad option.

    I recall another church where I served as an associate. When I was in the hiring process I was told of the pastor's great commitment to biblical hermeneutics. Originally I thought, "All right...bring on the preaching." But I was shocked the first few times I heard him speak - then I discovered where he attended seminary - Baptist Christian University. Yikes. :eek:

    But I have found a good church home...this guy is earning his doctorate through NOBTS.

    ahhhhhh,
    Steven King
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

  14. Craig Hargis

    Craig Hargis New Member

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    Steve: This is a small point, and really just offered as a kind of annotation to your note, not as a counter argument. But perhaps the very best preaching I have ever heard was during the one week exit seminar at Louisiana Baptist University last year. It was a very classical "cross" sermon, that led as usual into an invitation for salvation or rededication; the guy was from Mississippi, he was an LBU graduate (and I think Baptist Bible College, MO) there was nothing reallly unusual about the sermon, but man he could preach. My point is perhaps some of the best preachers ever might have had at topsas an academic credential an unaccredited Th.G. Conversely, I have heard speakers with sterling academic credentials that were so boring the congregation considers mass suicide. And educated men who are great speakers. Very specific degrees in expository preaching or training for broadcasting not withstanding, I am not sure if the accreditation of one's degree has much to do with the quality of preaching. I am not going to defend or not defend LBU, because that is not my point, but people like Neal Weaver, Jimmy Tharp, Fred Moody, Jimmy Combs, Jim Anderson, and Roy Wallace can PREACH. Actuallly, Jimmy Hayes, who runs the very less than enviable Andersonville Seminary, I hear, is a pretty good preacher. Looking at my list, it seems that having the name Jimmy is the first step toward good preaching--just kidding!

    Blessings and I am happy you found a good church

    Craig, Th.D. LBU
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Why doesn't LBU simply rename it's Th.D.s as D.A.s (still a recognized teaching credential) and attempt to get TRACS accreditation. If they were successful it would bring them more credibility.

    North
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What is a DA?
     
  17. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

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    Jimmy,

    Why do you continually post cryptic messages concerning schools that, at best, have questionable pasts?

    LBU used to claim accreditation by ACI. At one time they had candidacy status with TRACS, but were unceremoniously cast aside when TRACS sought DoE recognition. There are enough legitimate schools to discuss (and even surreptitiously promote, if that is your intent) that it makes no sense to even consider those who pass GAAS.
     
  18. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

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    DA= Doctor of Arts. Some schools are using the DA as more of a professional, practitioner degree than the Ph.D., Th.D., etc.


    Bruce
     
  19. Craig Hargis

    Craig Hargis New Member

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    Jimmy and North:

    Part of the answer lies in the internal politics (not in the bad sense) of the Bible Baptist Fellowship, the organization to which LBU belongs. BBFI is a fellowship of about 4,500 independent Baptist Churches. As dedicated fundamentalists they have something of a history of eschewing things like accreditation--based on the idea of biblical separation. Things are a little less polemical now than in the fifties and The BBFI has undertaken to see that alll of its schoools attain recognized accreditation. This has not been an entirely unanimous course, as the BBF has its roots in some pretty radical fundamental strains like Frank Norris and the Bible Baptist movement coming out of extreme fundamental elements among Southern Baptists in the early forties. First priority here (accreditation) has gone to the flagship school Baptist Bible Colllege in Springfield MO. Second has been a focus on Boston Bible College. BBC, MO has national accreditation and is a NCA RA candidate. Boston has national accreditation. Atlantic Baptist Bible College, LBU, BBC West and Western States BBC remain unaccredited. Of all these schools, only LBU is chartered to award the Ph.D. On the path to accreditation, BBC West and Western States are first getting the highest California approval, and then will look to national accreditation (Bible College), LBU has been for a while talking with TRACS. I think LBU wants to get its new building up and get a better library before undertaking TRACS. Atlantic will go the path of BBC West. Despite naysayers, BBC is being reinvented as a general liberal arts university and graduate school. All BBF schools over the last ten years have much improved. outside of BBC, the others are cast as more traditinal Bible colleges. LBU will probably evolve into the BBFI's main graduate schoool of religion, seeking first TRACS and the later RA accreditation. LBU would drop the Ph.D. in favor of the DA if they have too, but I think the fellowship wants a Ph.D./Th.D. granting graduate school. LBU now serves that purpose, as it will be a while before BBC can go to NCA to get approval for a Ph.D. Right now they want to get their M.Div through. I do believe LBU will get TRACS before 2006. I think the plans are to have a very high end Bible college and seminary in Boston, a full university and liberal arts graduate school in Springfield, a Bible College and a smalll liberal arts college in California, a Bible colllege in the DC area, and a liberal arts college and semi residential graduate schoool and seminary in Shreveport. There willl also be a major BBFI colllege in Korea.

    Thanks, Craig
     
  20. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

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    LBU: great preaching, great strides and..

    ah yes, great hyperbolism! (as per the2000-2001 catalogue)

    Wherein on p10 LBU explains why it does not seek regional or national accreditation, because LBU is "primarily a religious institution. " That certainly clarifies and justifies LBU's unaccredited status. They could be, they just don"t want to. So why not ATS then, hmmmm?

    Given that "sound Christian character" (p9) is part of LBU's philosophy of education everything ,one should suppose, be entirely open and above board, including faculty representation. The faculty is committed to excellence (p25) and the supervision of high quality research (p26) and" each degree program is coordinated by an appropriately credentialed professional holding appropriate terminal degrees."(p12) One just cannot wait to turn to the back of the catalogue and be overwhelmed by the qualifications of this body of personnel which twice deserves the designation of appropriate , which can supervise research of high quality, and which itself is commited only to excellence!

    But upon turning here, pages 102-106 what we find seems somewhat less than the above promises. For the dean of the school of Bible Studies has no accredited doctorate here listed. Neither does the assistant dean. Neither does the dean of Specialized Studies. Neither does the dean of the school of Communications. Neither does the dean of the school of Christian Education. Neither does the Assistant dean of the School of Biblical Studies. Do they have docs? Yes. From where ??LBU, of course.

    Then glancing through other faculty degrees we find their doctorates from respected (?)schools as: Calif Grad School of Theology, Clayton Univ, Arkansas Biblical Grad School, National Christian Univ, and Great Falls Baptist Seminary.

    I am not suggesting that one could not do good work there. But I will submit that the great strides being made by LBU much consist of refining the art and expression of hyperbole. Hopefully this skill does not transfer to the great preaching as well.
     

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