An MPhil Degree

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Michael, Jul 24, 2001.

Loading...
  1. Michael

    Michael Member

    What Is the difference between the MPhil and an MA or MTh? I was told by one professor at a foreign school that an MPhil often indicates an interdisciplinary focus. If that's the case, maybe this would be a good degree for me to pursue--I could possibly combine theology and the arts in such a degree program, which is what I'm seeking to do.

    How would an MPhil be regarded in this country? Is it as acceptable as an MA or MTh? Is it a higher degree than the MA?

    I'll appreciate any input!

    Michael
     
  2. joybaum

    joybaum New Member

    The people I'm dealing with at the University of London divide masters degrees into "taught" and "research". The master of laws is "taught" with lectures and written examinations. The M. Phil. is apparently conferred after the research is completed and accepted. Coursework doesn't seem to be included. I have no idea if this is universal or even if I am entirely correct.
    Joybaum
     
  3. Ike

    Ike New Member

    MA and MTh degrees are the usual requirements for admission to doctoral programs in the US. I believe that MPhil is required of those who aspire to pursue PhD programs in the UK. In most cases, MPhil earned from one UK university may not be transferred to another university.
    Off topic: I heard that Cambridge and Oxford universities (and probably others) used to award MA degree automatically to graduates two years after graduation. Does anyone know whether this practice has changed?

    Ike
     
  4. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    My experience as a grad student in the British system is that this is virtually universal. I do believe that a couple UK schools offer taught MPhil's. However, in the VAST majority of cases, the MPhil is entirely research based & involves the preparation of a thesis of approximately 40,000 words.

    As someone involved in theological circles, my experience has been that an MPhil doesn't necessary involve an interdisciplinary focus, although I'm sure this certainly is possible. Most British schools seem to represent the MPhil as the stepping stone to the PhD. If one does well with his MPhil, he likely will be able to proceed into PhD research. Common practice, then, is to focus MPhil research on some aspect of what you envision addressing in your doctoral dissertation.

    Many of my British friends seem to represent the MPhil as the "premiere" master's degree to earn. Apparently, this credential is highly esteemed in some British circles. However, this tells me little about how a wholly research-based MPhil would be received in the US. I imagine that someone would have to work through the same sort of issues we've discussed previously about wholly research-based MTh degrees.

    Out of all of the British schools currently encouraging students to pursue research-based MPhil's at a distance, my institution of choice, if I were to endeavour to pursue an MPhil, would be Trinity College, Bristol (validated by the prestigious University of Bristol). Their website I believe to be located at www.trinity-bris.ac.uk . I hope that's right.
     
  5. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    The MPhil generally is required of those students who lack a background in master's-level research. For instance, one who performed well in an MA or MTh that included a research component likely would be invited to enter directly into a PhD program. However, one lacking an adequate research background likely would be required to enter the MPhil initially, in order to develop and demonstrate research ability, before being upgraded to PhD candidate standing. In such cases, full-time students commonly have to study at the MPhil level for at least a year, and part-time students have to do so for at least 2 years.

    I know some Americans with MDiv's who lacked an adequate research background. These individuals, in seeking a British PhD, were required initially, to enter at the MPhil level. This may not be required in every situation, but it is bound to be required in some cases.
     
  6. Michael

    Michael Member

    CL,

    I was wondering if an MPhil would be considered as equal to an MA or MTh because I saw on one website that an MPhil in Applied Theology required only a three-year bachelor's degree for admission instead of a four-year (honors) bachelor's. On the other hand, I saw on another website that a taught master's--MA or MTh--was prerequisite for entrance into an MPhil. How can this discrepancy be explained? Does the degree mean one thing in one country and something else in another? Also, I was wondering if an MPhil would be as accepted in the U.S. as an MA or MTh; I know I haven't seen many of them when I've perused faculty listings.

    BTW, do you know the cost of Trinity College-Bristol's MPhil?
     
  7. Bill Highsmith

    Bill Highsmith New Member

    In some cases, I think that the MPhil is considered a Ph.D. track degree. The academic departments at some UK universities, I've read, require would-be PhD candidates to begin with the MPhil, and if the research work/paper is of Ph.D. caliber, the student may advance to Ph.D. candidacy and continue the research towards a larger thesis; otherwise, the student receives an MPhil (a highly respected degree) or is dismissed.

    Regarding your question about why there are discrepancies...I'll give a chili analogy, which is much better than a sports analogy. "Why do people in Cincinnati make a spaghetti dish and call it 'chili'?" you ask. Well, either they're wrong or they're different. (I think they are wrong.) The MPhil granters are just different.
     
  8. EsqPhD

    EsqPhD member

    In the other discussion threads, we have sometimes indicated that the length of a dissertation doesn't necessarily indicate quality--basically hinting that one can do a doctoral level dissertation with say less than 60 pages. This is not an exageration actually, for some hard and applied science dissertations I have looked at (all accredited and reputable) are less than 60 pages. What's 60 pages equivalent to in word count? Maybe 18,000 to 20,000 words?

    My point is not to say that one cannot have a doctoral dissertation of high quality in 60 pages--I'm all for that. However, notice many European universities set certain standards for thesis and dissertations. The M.Phil. should be around 30,000 words, the M.Litt. around 50,000 words, the Ph.D. around 80,000 words. If length wasn't at all correlated to the amount of work and quality, why would these standards be emphasized so much?

    Okay, so perhaps we can make the argument that these standards are more for the social sciences. Can anyone give me any persuasive arguments why if a science dissertation of doctoral quality can be completed in 60 pages, why can't a social science dissertation of equally high quality be also completed in 60 pages?

    Having written a master's thesis and doctoral dissertation in the theological arena, I wished I could have turned in a 30 page master's thesis or a 60 page doctoral dissertation in theology--but somehow, I don't think it would fly with 99.9% of the supervisors or theological institutions. I'm assuming that this would be similar in other social science fields.

    What's my point? Just that it ain't fair when the hard and applied science people can turn in a doctoral disseration of around 100 pages. I could have said what was said in my 291 pages in 100 pages, but somehow I suspect my supervisor and theological faculty would not have approved it as "doctoral" level and would have probably given me another masters instead! [​IMG]

    EsqPhD
     
  9. Michael

    Michael Member

    Thanks, Bill; I enjoyed that. [​IMG]
     
  10. Bill Highsmith

    Bill Highsmith New Member

    We don't disagree, except that in the scenario that I gave, a person finished his MPhil product and was accepted into the Ph.D. program. That person would be expected to produce more. If, instead, he/she points to the MPhil product and says that it is enough for a Ph.D., what do you think the result would be? He/she must either pile higher and deeper (PhD) or make it smaller, invoking the poetic theory that a four-word, sublime phrase is better than a six-word mediocre phrase); it mustn't be the same, however. [​IMG]
     
  11. rlevett

    rlevett New Member

    In the UK an MPhil is usually a 2 years full time research degree - sometimes given to PhD students who leave as they are fed up. Cambridge and Oxford issue MPhil's as 1 year taught plus research degrees equivalent to other Universities MA/MSc degrees as Oxbridge MA's are not real degrees. There was talk in the UK press about the UK getting strict about degree classifications, especially Masters, and Oxbridge may have to change although most cabinet ministers went there so it is unlikely! This may also cause some problems for DL taught (no dissertation) only MBA’s from certain Universities in the UK…
     
  12. pbocij

    pbocij member

    Just thought I'd add my two-pence (I'm British) to the debate...

    As someone who has worked in a number of UK universities and has an MPhil, I thought it might be useful to add the following comments.

    In the UK, many students register on what is called the "MPhil/PhD transfer route". Initial registration is for the MPhil, but satisfactory progress means that the student can transfer to the PhD later on. Of course, you can register for both the MPhil and PhD directly.

    Typically, the MPhil takes two years and requires a thesis of 40K - 60K words. Transferring to the PhD takes an additional year and the thesis is usually between 60K - 100K words.

    The main difference between the two degrees is that the MPhil does not necessarily need to make a contribution to original knowledge.

    If a student doesn't achieve the standard needed for a PhD, some universities award the MPhil as a kind of consolation prize. This means that some "snobby" academics and universities regard the MPhil as a failed PhD, a doctorate wannabe if you like. However, the MPhil is a valid and valuable qualification and this is why some more enlightened universities continue to offer it as a standalone qualification.

    In terms of where the MPhil fits in the educational system, it is normally regarded as higher than the MA or MSc. There's an interesting diagram available from NARIC that shows the structure of the UK degree system: http://www.naric.org.uk/NaricWelcome.htm (the graphic is on the FAQ page). Incidentally, NARIC is the UK's official evaluation service for foreign qualifications, etc.

    I hope some of this is useful to anyone contemplating the MPhil. On a personal level, I'd suggest that, in the UK, the MPhil sometimes carries something of a stigma with it because of what was said earlier about it being seen as some kind of consolation prize. From an international point of view, I'd suggest that few people really understand what the MPhil represents and so would tend to view it in the same way as an MA or MSc.

    Paul
     
  13. Michael

    Michael Member

    Paul,

    Thank you for that perspective.
     
  14. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    I agree with this assessment. Some institutions have come to their own conclusions concerning what constitutes an adequate background for one to be qualified to undertake a postgraduate research degree. Many UK schools will permit bachelor's degree holders to enter postgraduate research. Others simply feel that a master's degree is necessary for one to be adequately prepared. Similarly, in North America, some institutions (such as Regent College, Vancouver and Biblical Theological Seminary, Hatfield, PA) are willing to consider admitting students to ThM study on the basis of an MA (with supplementary coursework, of course). Other institutions will not even consider an applicant unless he or she possesses an MDiv. In addition, some institutions will accept students into a theological PhD program based upon an MA or MDiv qualification. Other schools will only accept applicants already possessing the ThM. So, while things generally are standardized, there remains room for individual institutions to exercise autonomous discretion.
     
  15. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    As you know, my MTh through Spurgeon's College is in the area of Applied Theology. It seems that, among the things taken into consideration for admission to British Applied Theology programs, an appropriate academic background certainly is deemed important, but a substantial practical background also is of great importance. Why is this so? If one were to endeavour to enter a master's degree in Systematic Theology, he would need to possess a solid background in Systematic Theology. Similarly, one desiring to study APPLIED theology at the MTh level needs to have a substantial background in application, or practice. Thus, you will notice, most UK degrees in Applied Theology will require one to have engaged in full time ministry for a minimum of X number of years, and to be actively engaging in ministry while participating in the degree course. The UK master's degrees in Applied Theology are very similar to the American DMin. They generally are not designed for those seeking to gain entrance into the ministry, but for those who already are active practitioners.

    I am not aware of the current fee structure for Trinity College, Bristol. You might contact them by email.
     
  16. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    Michael,

    If you're interested in doing an interdisciplinary MPhil combining theology and the arts, you might contact Oak Hill Theological College in north London. They are affiliated with Middlesex University. They might be willing to cooperate with you in a largely distance-based MPhil course of study. The reason I mention them is because they have a gentleman in their faculty who possesses an interdisciplinary academic background in theology and the arts from Cambridge. I believe their website is located at http://justus2.anglican.org/~sof/OakHill/
     
  17. EsqPhD

    EsqPhD member

    Just out of curiousity, what institutions were you referring to that have a Ph.D. (in the theological arena) program but would only accept an M.Div. as a prerequisite? Most of the institutions I know allow for an M.Div. or equivalent. Just curious.

    EsqPhD
     
  18. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    The distinction articulated here is quite true.
     
  19. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member


    Yes, every institution I'm aware of allows for the "equivalent" of the MDiv. I was strictly speaking shorthand, and didn't mean to suggest that the "or equivalent" background is deemed unacceptable by any institution. Rather, my point was to contrast those institutions that will admit students on the basis of the MA/MDiv ("or equivalent") and those that will admit students solely on the basis of the ThM (be they few).
     
  20. Michael

    Michael Member

    CL,

    Can you tell me the name of that Oak Hill faculty member with a degree in theology and the arts? I'd like to e-mail him directly.

    Thanks!
     

Share This Page