Amnesty International Does Detail Analysis of Gaza War

For most of my adult life, I supported the State of Israel and said, and still believe, that the Arabs could have had peace and a Palestinian State at any point they chose before the Six Day War. Time after time, the Arabs chose war and attempted to destroy the State and "push the Jews into the sea."

Wars have consequences and Israel imposed those consequences.

But what is happening now isn't war and the consequences do not flow from war. Every Israeli government since the Six Day War has supported and defended "illegal" settlements in the West Bank. Every Israeli government since the Six Day War has administered Gaza as a sort of prison camp.

The current government received the Hamas attack as the greatest of political gifts; justification to slaughter and expel the Gazans and sieze the land for themselves and their followers.

Americans of all people should recognize this for what it is. We did it.

 

While I understand your perspective, most Israelis would likely disagree with this assessment. Israel's actions are often framed as a response to the ongoing security threats posed by Gaza, which has become a hub for terrorism and violence. The Israeli government, I believe, does not have an interest in territorial expansion in Gaza. What Israel truly seeks is a peaceful and stable neighbor with whom it can build constructive relationships, similar to the peace agreements it has with Jordan and Egypt.
A lasting peace is essential, and it is crucial for both sides to move beyond cycles of violence toward mutual coexistence and economic cooperation.

There are voices in Israel that do think that the only way to stop Palestinian terror is by taking the land, nothing else appears to work. But those are small minority. As to Gaza becoming a prison like, is only due to Hamas attacks on Israel.
Gaza was left to be governed by Gazans.
In 2007 they elected Hamas.

 

Unlike others, I have no interest in a point-by-point debate with an irrational party.

I supported Israel for most of my life. I always felt they were the victims, not the aggressors, in their dealings with their neighbors. And I even understood why they seized territory, especially the Sinai--which they returned--and the Golan Heights--which remain a serious security threat. But a country should not--cannot--simply occupy land for decades after a conflict. It is inhuman.

Normally, territory occupied after a war is set free at some point. WWII was a stark example, where the West eventually freed Italy, Japan, and West Germany, while the Soviets continued to dominate East Germany (and East Berlin), not to mention the rest of the Iron Curtain.

Once the war was over and Israel occupied those territories, it should have worked to either incorporate them into Israel or to cease occupying them. It did neither. Sadly, the previous owners don't want them back, except for the Golan (obviously). So, Israel was left with a choice: incorporate (one-state) or free (two state). It chose a third way: apartheid occupation. This has remained the case.

But even Israel knows it cannot lock up a people forever. So, as Nosborne points out, Hamas gave them a gift--an excuse--to conduct genocide. Wipe them out and there's no more problem. Plus, free land! Can the Golan and West Bank be far behind?

With the mighty United States at its side, Israel has gone from the target to the aggressor. They're wiping out the Palestinians because they can.

 

What is worse, Israel cannot stop or turn back now. They must see their grisly plan through or perish in the attempt. No comprise peace can ever hold. No Israeli government can afford to allow a viable Palestinian State or to remove the settlements and their infrastructure as would be necessary for such a State to exist. We are seeing the culmination of fifty years of government policy and it can have no other end.

 

I'm not in the least bit interested in the legal definition of apartheid. It's a word that seems the closest to describing what is going on right now in Gaza and the West Bank. Lerner, I know you don't like that word. Propose a better one or that's what I'll continue to call it.

Nosborne and Rich have done a far better job describing my own conclusions and feelings on this matter than I'd probably ever be able to express myself so I'll just leave it at that. Although I do admit to having a special hatred of Netanyahu because I feel he deserves much blame for my disappointment in Israel.

 

Bill,
I understand the frustration and strong emotions surrounding the situation. However, I still believe it's important to acknowledge the context in which Israel is fighting. Israel faces constant terror attacks and threats of destruction from enemies who have, in their own words, vowed to see Israel gone. The situation in Gaza, devastating as it is, is largely a result of the actions of Hamas and the radical terror it has unleashed on both Israel and its own people.

In addition to Gaza, the situation in Syria is another serious concern for Israel. The conflict there not only threatens to open another front but is also being manipulated by various actors, including Erdogan’s Turkey and ISIS. With the ongoing fight between Syrian rebels and Assad's forces, there is a real risk that, if Assad is toppled, it could create instability that leads to further aggression toward Israel.

I also think it's important to recognize that while we may see this issue through different lenses, some readers may appreciate the broader perspective and the complexity of both sides. The recent Egyptian-brokered proposal and a possible understanding between Hamas and the PLO could potentially pave the way for a ceasefire and a path toward recovery for all parties involved. I remain hopeful that these efforts could bring an end to the conflict in Gaza soon, allowing all sides to heal and rebuild.

 

Of course, I recognize the horrible evil of Iran and their puppets like Hamas, Hezbollah, and Houthis as well as the other evil dangers lurking like Russia etc.. For most of my life I just thought Israel was one of the good guys. I'm just disappointed that Israel has let this drag them down to their enemies' level.

 

I’m surprised you feel Israel has reached the same level as its enemies. Furthermore, I believe some of Israel’s closest allies would act similarly if they were in comparable circumstances. Personally, I still view the IDF as one of the most moral armies in the world.
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) is often considered one of the most moral armies in the world for several key reasons, based on its principles, practices, and oversight mechanisms:

One of the IDF’s core values is the "Purity of Arms" (Taharaat HaKli), which stresses the ethical conduct of soldiers and the use of force only when absolutely necessary. It emphasizes the protection of innocent lives, proportionality in military actions, and the avoidance of unnecessary harm.
The IDF has various mechanisms in place to ensure accountability. Investigations are conducted into incidents where civilians are harmed or if there are violations of military ethics.
There is also a system of courts-martial and civilian oversight to address any abuses.
The IDF frequently faces asymmetric warfare situations, where enemy forces hide among civilians.
The IDF strives to make ethical decisions in the heat of battle, aiming to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants, even under extremely difficult circumstances.
In its military operations, the IDF uses advanced technology, such as precision-guided missiles and drones, to minimize harm to civilians. They also issue warnings in advance of attacks when possible, including leaflets or phone calls, to give civilians time to evacuate.
Despite being involved in conflict, the IDF often provides humanitarian aid, both to Palestinians and to other countries in need, such as during natural disasters.
The Israeli military frequently sets up field hospitals and provides medical care to people from across the region, including adversaries.

 

I was not saying that Israel has sunk all the way down to the same level as the horrible evil Iran. Keep in mind though that Iran feels that they are the righteous good guys. You and the current parties in Netanyahu's current government feel that they are the righteous good guys. This is a real danger of having religious zealots ruling a country.

 

While I understand your point, comparing the situations in Israel and Iran isn't quite accurate. Israel faces an existential threat that Iran does not. As I’ve mentioned before, the ongoing buildup of terror aimed at destroying Israel, along with the misguided notion that agreements with terrorist organizations can lead to peace, creates a complex and dangerous dynamic. The approach prior to September 7th is no longer viable. There’s a growing realization that a stronger, more secure stance is necessary to ensure Israel's safety and future.
Israel should reconsider the policy of relying solely on a smaller, "smart" army and take steps to rebuild additional divisions and mechanized units. While maintaining a technologically advanced and morally guided military is essential, a more robust, diversified force—capable of responding to various threats—will enhance Israel's security and preparedness. The current global and regional threats demand a balanced approach that strengthens both strategic depth and military capabilities.

While Netanyahu himself is generally seen as more centrist than many members of his coalition, his reliance on far-right parties to maintain a parliamentary majority has significantly empowered them.
The far-right has a strong influence on the direction of domestic and security policies, particularly in relation to the Palestinian territories and Israel’s internal politics.
This shift has led to growing concerns, both domestically and internationally, about the future of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, as well as Israel's democratic and judicial institutions.
Political dynamics may shift in Israel, and if not in the 2025, then potentially in 2026 elections. These changes could significantly impact the direction of the government and its policies, especially regarding security and military strategy.

 

Well, that's the propaganda they're spreading to justify genocide. Hamas is not and never was an "existential threat".

 

This is a false accusation. The real perpetrators of genocide and ethnic cleansing are radical terrorists and state sponsors of terrorism like Iran. Just look at the history—Jews once lived in countries like Egypt, Iran, and Iraq, but were driven out by these very forces.

Evidence indicates that a much larger attack was planned by Hezbollah, but Hamas's actions in Gaza disrupted those plans. Iran had been orchestrating a simultaneous multi-front assault involving the West Bank (a smaller-scale model of Gaza), Lebanon through Hezbollah, and Gaza itself.

It's crucial to understand the bigger picture here: the threat comes not just from Hamas, but from a network of terror organizations and state sponsors with a shared agenda.
If those are accused Israel, lived in Shderot, or one of the Kibuts near Gaza, then they would understand the real reality, when your kids have to suffer hostilities, rocket firings, go to the war.

Israel was attacked, Hamas built a mega fortress in a terrorist state and held Gaza hostage, all the focus in the distraction of the state of Israel.
It was a superior tactic and heroic IDF that weakened Hezbollah that had capability to shoot at Israel then of thousands rockets daily that would be real holocaust repeated. And now ISIS Syrian rebles and Turkey getting closer in to the picture.

 

The fact remains that Hamas was much less dangerous than Hezbollah and Iran. Within a few months after October 7 that much less dangerous threat had been blunted and the many months since then has been basically unnecessary violence and destruction sold to the Israeli citizens through scare tactics that you've swallowed hook, line and sinker.

 

The fact is that Hamas is capable of terrorizing southern Israel and beyond. A few months into Israel's defensive operations against Hamas would not have been enough to end the terror it inflicted. The old assumptions no longer apply. A new approach is necessary to bring lasting peace for civilians on both sides. Since October 7th, Hamas is effectively a non-entity for Israel, and its continued existence as a threat must be eliminated for the security of all.
They are holding Israeli and American hostages in subhuman conditions.

 

This is undoubtably true. Mitigating that fact somewhat is the simple truth that the majority of people of Gaza are living in subhuman conditions. Over 70% of buildings destroyed or damaged and insufficient food, supplies, and medicine being allowed in, it is a subhuman place to exist. They're living like rats.

 

Here's something to keep in mind. Israel has never recognized a right of return to Occupied Territory or, for non Jews, Israel itself. Those Gazans being forced out won't be back. Ever.

 

It's important to note that during the Clinton-brokered peace talks, the right of return for Palestinians was discussed in the context of a proposed Palestinian state and Israel agreed to it. Arafat ultimately walked away from that deal, rejecting the two-state solution.
Additionally, many Palestinians who left Israel did so under the direction of Arab governments, rather than being expelled by Israel. This contrasts with the approximately 900,000 Jews who were forced to leave Arab countries around the same time.

 

The difficult conditions in Gaza are largely the result of Hamas' leadership and external influences like Iran. If the people of Gaza had different leadership and aspirations, their situation might be very different. Hamas has brought these calamities upon Gaza.
I remember when Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, and there was a sense of hope for the region. It’s tragic that radical elements, particularly Hamas, seized control soon after, stifling that potential.
Gaza could have flourished, much like the UAE, if it had been guided by responsible leadership that prioritized the welfare of its people.

 

Israeli Palestinian Arab on Amnesty International.

 

Amnesty didn’t want a discussion about the proper definition of genocide, though. It wanted headlines alleging that Israel committed the crime — and it got them.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/goldberg-headlines-said-amnesty-international-110033892.html

Interesting point:
On page 101 of its 296-page report, the authors acknowledge that the question of intent is a huge problem for those who accuse Israel of genocide. But they go on to reject “an overly cramped interpretation of international jurisprudence … that would effectively preclude a finding of genocide in the context of an armed conflict.”

Most rational and thinking humans came up with this conclusion around two days after Israel struck back for the terrorist attack on Oct. 7, 2023.
No military that is trying to commit genocide 'warns' when they are going to strike, giving civilians time to leave.