American Institute of Holistic Theology (AIHT)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by AAD, Aug 12, 2011.

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  1. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    That's just nonsense.
    Are you telling me that my degrees are non-academic? My Masters in Theology is non academic? My six years working on my Nations BRS?


    I have no idea how to proceed with our conversation because you are arguing from a place that has no logic.

    You are clearly ok with this, if they just need that education then why the title? If they just wanted to learn and develop there is no need for a title. Fact is if the degree came with no title then no one would go there.

    You and Johann's conversation says it all.
     
  2. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    My friend, with all your respect, have you worked as clergy in your life? Have you found work with the degrees you hold as clergy? Please inform yourself about how the church positions work and then we talk.

    My point is that you are trashing this seminary because it does not hold academic accreditation when in the real world, interfaith minister jobs do not require academic accredited degrees.

    My point about your DEAC accredited degrees is that they will not be accepted by many denominations to work as clergy as many only accept RA or TRACs accredited degrees. It doesn't mean that you hold degree mills but they will not be accepted in places where DEAC accreditation is not acceptable like teaching at the University and many traditional christian denominations. Some more liberal Christian denominations do not require accredited education at all but just bible college that can be earned at your local bible non accredited school.

    You seem to believe that the world is black and white when it comes to religious education and it is not.

    My suggestion would be to work in few churches and see how this works before you start trashing seminaries with no basis.
     
  3. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    What else can we judge an online school by if we can't judge them by their websites?
     
  4. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    RF,

    I am wrapping up with my Masters from Liberty MTS and I also hold an AGS from Clovis with a concentration in Religion (5 courses). I have cert from Moody (NT) and have done the South African Theological Seminary Pathways program (only $75 dollars!). I doubt anyone could even imply my degree from Nations is subpar, it was absurd the amount of work that was required. I’m sure members here that are working in their graduate degree would flip their shit if they even saw that someone was implying their degrees were substandard. I do currently work part time as an assistant pastor. You know nothing John Snow, Tracs over DETC? What about ATS?


    American Institute of Holistic Theology
    Ripoff Report | American Institute of Holistic Theology Complaint Review Internet: 1279926
    https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,80911,81565
    People Who Have Fake Doctorates: Melissa Tiers, New York, NY - FAKE DOCTORATE AND BACHELORS
     
  5. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Please, guys, chill out. It's getting to the point where you can hardly keep track of the pissing contests around here. :wall:
     
  6. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    New Seminary has been around for a very long time and has only recently started awarding degrees. I disagree with that move, personally. But I'm not affiliated with the school.

    They have pumped out a fair number of ministers. Some of whom have full-time pulpits in New York. While I heartily maintain that they are not up to the standards of an accredited institution for graduate coursework I disagree that they are a mill. These aren't programs that you write a check and get a diploma. These are not multiple choice exams and a quick path to a degree. The primary focus is on ordination. And they do a pretty good job of training their ministers for the type of work their ministers are likely to do. They're a recognized UN-NGO for crying out loud.

    Another example would be St. Sophia's in New Jersey which is affiliated with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. They also award unaccredited Masters degrees with state approval. That program, however, is fully residential.

    You're certainly entitled to your opinions. But they are incorrect and based upon ignorant assumptions. Considering your choice alma mater has been accredited for, what, a year now? I find it amusing how quickly you've shifted your position to one of no accreditation = garbage. Pre-DEAC approval the normal Nations trope called for far more tolerance toward some of these fringe schools.

    Sedona is a mill. LBU is a borderline case largely because of their association with an actual denomination. St. Sophia's is not a mill by any reasonable standard.

    And since you seem to be dangling the bait I'll go ahead and say it:

    No, your paper from Nations is not an "academic degree." It's purely religious and has no standing in the broader academic community.
     
  7. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    I don't know anything about this unaccredited seminary, apart from what I've seen on their website, so I can't say a whole lot about whether I think that they are a mill or not.

    I'm hugely interested in religious studies but I'm not a Christian (or a Muslim or a Jew). So I'd really like a school like this to be credible. But unfortunately, my wanting a school to be credible doesn't mean that it is. I'm rather skeptical.

    I emphatically agree that their 'accreditation' page is pure mill-speak.

    They say that they are "the oldest interfaith seminary in the world". I suppose that depends on what 'interfaith' means. It can't mean non-denominational, since some of the most prestigious and long-established seminaries in the United States are non-denominational. I guess that the idea is smearing Christianity together with non-Christian traditions. But how can that be done intelligently, without reducing all the traditions to simplistic caricatures? They seemingly don't mean comparative religion, since that academic specialty is long established at conventional universities. Even the idea of a 'perennial tradition' underlying all religious traditions isn't new. So I'm not sure what's supposed to be new and revolutionary about these people's approach.

    "TNS has elected not to pursue traditional accreditation at this time." Or maybe they recognize that they wouldn't qualify for it. A great deal depends on their reasons.

    TNS "would find the standardization and conformity required by traditional accreditation far too restrictive and antithetical to its mission." They go on to say that they don't care about buildings or libraries filled with books that go out of date quickly. They seem unaware that fully-DL schools can be accredited.

    More to the point, they say, "There are no conventional accrediting agencies capable of evaluating the work of seminaries at the cutting edge of religious studies." There's a nice little unjustified assumption built into that, that TNS is on the cutting edge of religious studies.

    "The major universities are just now recognizing the kind of work that the New Seminary has been doing for nearly four decades." The idea that the cutting edge of religious studies is somehow unaccreditable at the moment would probably come as a surprise to Stanford's decidedly-RA and interfaith Religious Studies department, founded in 1973, six years before New Seminary.

    I think that it's true that there aren't any specialized religious accreditors that would fit something like this. TRACS and ABHE are obviously out. ATS has erected a bigger tent, but still restricts itself to Christian and Jewish institutions. This is a problem that all of the more credible non-Christian schools encounter. They seem to either opt for DEAC (as the decidedly non-traditional University of Philosophical Research, Atlantic University and the Holmes Institute have done) or go RA as with Naropa, the University of the West, the California Institute of Integral Studies, the Won Institute, Zaytuna and others. (Dharma Realm and the Institute of Buddhist Studies in Berkeley are currently WASC candidates.)

    "Should TNS submit to the assessment of an agency, it would need to be an organization comprised of representatives from across the community of Interfaith/Interspiritual/Integral/Intra-Tantric leaders."

    Whatever that means. I'll note that the six person WASC site-visit team that visited Dharma Realm Buddhist University prior to its achieving Candidacy, included the President of the California Institute of Integral Studies, the Dean of Student Affairs at University of the West (a Buddhist university) and the VP for Finance at CIIS. So WASC seemed to be willing to choose individuals who had some feeling for Dharma Realm's uniqueness.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2016
  8. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member


    LOL! No they don't meet standards yet they are not a mill. Not meeting standards and issuing PhDs that only take a year to receive? That's not right and everyone on this board knows it.

    There is no way to justify that degree. Take turns running down Nations all you want. My degree is real and legal and from a non-profit. I was admitted to an RA school with no issues. I was admitted to every RA school I applied to, it was not near as limiting as I thought it would be. (Fuller, Biola)

    The issues we have established is you all have degrees from school that lack accreditation and are defending that practice. Fine and well if you do, I knew Nations was going to earn accreditation, it was a risk I was going to take. That risk paid off and I earned a degree for almost free.

    The real issue at play here is AIHT which is no way shape or form a real school. Please see the links I provided. A real school would not issue a masters and a PhD in one year.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2016
  9. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    Great post, WASC seems to be open to probably any education institute as long as it proved a quality education. The old excuse for not earning accreditation is really not valid any longer.
     
  10. Helpful2013

    Helpful2013 Active Member

    Nations isn't the issue here and neither is b4cz28's view of accreditation. He's quite right about the quote above, and yes, everyone on this board should know that.
     
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Actually, Sophia MDiv seems to be blended; its distance component actually can be taken as a fully online MRS. This is probably to accommodate the needs of a small but geographically dispersed jurisdiction. And, of course, they are fully legitimate and respected enough in Orthodox circles (even though St. Vlad's, St. Tikhon's, and Greek Holy Trinity are RA and ATS).
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member


    Hateful blogs as these ones do not provide any service to anyone. Some people always tend to look down at others for one reason or another, people with traditional RA PhDs would blast people with online RA PhDs, people with RA online PhDs would blast people with DEAC doctorates, people with DEAC degrees would blast people with religious exempted degrees, and the list goes on.

    At the end of the day, who cares? If the spiritual guru wants to use a Doctor of Divinity title earned in 6 months from an esoteric school, what is the problem? that does not harm me or you, if you don't believe in esoteric subjects, just don't use an esoteric doctor services.



    For the record, I did complete an online doctorate in metaphysics from a metaphysical church like AIHT, I was not able to use this doctorate in Canada mainly because most local interfaith churches would not recognize this credential so I decided to complete a seminary program at a local interfaith school that did not lead to a degree but a certificate that opened the doors for me. Ordination is a long process, it takes about 4 years and requires service to the community in terms of speaking, spiritual counseling, etc. In Canada, ministers of religion are licensed professions that require provincial approval so one needs to be recognized by an organized religious faith with physical presence and temples and not just an internet church like many of these online schools have.

    I learned my lesson. In few words, if you want to follow a religious program, you should make sure that this program will be accepted by the churches where you want to work. In the religious business, it is not the title of the diploma that matters but its recognition in the denomination you want to work. Picking a random program over the internet is not a good decision regardless of no accreditation, DEAC accreditation or even RA accreditation, it might be convenient but not the best decision if you want to be part of faith at local community church that normally accepts people from a particular path.
     
  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    b4cz28,

    Perhaps you did not get my point. I don't question your credentials but your judgment. Religious professions are not about fancy degree titles but service to the community.

    Religious institutions exist with the purpose to serve people and not serve ourselves by pleasing our egos with degree titles that people can admire and recognize.

    True religious professionals do not keep studying to accumulate paper certificates that can be displayed in walls for people to admire but with the purpose of servicing the spiritual community you belong.

    My message to you was not meant to blast your credentials but to encourage you to use them in your local community. You don't need an accredited RA degree to make a difference, your NationsU degrees are enough to start working in local churches so you can discover the great profession of being a minister. I am sure that you have a lot to offer and you seem to be truly committed to the profession based on the information that you provided.

    Do not fall in the game that many people play here that my degree is better than yours because it comes from a better place. It is not the degree that matters but the people you service and help, people that you serve in your church most likely will never ask you where you went to school but will respect you because your contribution to the community.

    Sorry I offended you, not my intention.
     
  15. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I do find this school unethical but I don't know if I could consider it a mill as you still need to pass exams to earn this credential. My problem with them is that they don't seem to be training ministers but people that are using the PhD titles to practice as counselors, natural doctors or psychologists.
    There is an inconsistency between what they preach and what they practice, they preach spirituality but they seem to be there to mainly to make money.
    I believe than an ethical theological school should only be granting theological degrees and not areas that seem overlap medicine, business, psychology and counseling.

    I consider them when I was looking for metaphysics training but did not like the fact that they seem to be mainly a money making enterprise. Also, its curriculum seems to be more commercial oriented than theological oriented.
     
  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    NationsU is DEAC accredited that is an agency recognized by the department of education, you are required to complete general ED courses. You are right that their mission is mainly to train religious professionals but the qualification could be used to gain entry into secular degree such as a DEAC MBA while a religious school that is non accredited would not allow you to do this.
    However, in practice, most denominations that would accept an MDiv from NationsU for a minister positions would also accept an MDiv from a non accredited school. The DEAC accreditation for an MDiv has not much value for practical purposes other than giving it some credibility.
    I took some classes at NAtionsU for its MTS and most people taking these classes were taking them for personal purpose, I never came across a student that had the intention to become a minister. I believe that those interested in becoming ministers should attend a local seminar as this would provide the credibility and networking they need to accomplish their goals.
     
  17. RAM PhD

    RAM PhD Member

    One doesn't need a degree at all to make a difference. Degree mill credentials and worthless credentials from schools such as the now apparently defunct American College of Metaphysical Theology or the Universal Life Church do little more than bring shame/disgrace/humiliation to those who use them. That said, of all professions, those who serve in ministry should be persons of integrity and ethics. If a degree title is going to be used, the degree should be legitimately accredited.
     
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    WHAT exams? Sedona website says: Doctorate - no coursework - 10,000 + word dissertation only. No coursework= no exams, right? And no prerequisites either. Start with the doctorate if you want. I know people who did.

    From the Sedona site (emphasis mine).

    There is no prescribed coursework for the doctoral program; instead, the student selects a topic, researches and evaluates the relevant major sources, and submits a dissertation of at least 10,000 words.

    RAM said it best! And, I might add, the same integrity etc. (and legit credentials) should be expected of all those who serve in any health-related capacity - whether "natural," allopathic or what-have-you.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2016
  19. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    You cannot start the doctorate without the bachelor or masters first. I doesn't matter if you have an accredited masters or bachelors, most metaphysical schools require you to start from scratch so there are exams at the bachelor's level at least.
     
  20. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    OK, since I assume Dr RAM (I assume his PhD has all the prestigious accreditations) and you are so smart. Please refer to me a RA PhD program or at least a BS so I can become a minister of the Jehovah witness church.
     

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