ACCS: What are their chances?

Hi Robert:
While I am not so concerned about rigor as Bill is, I came to the same conclusions about ACCS for much the same reasons. It was not a quick decision for me either, nor an easy one. I liked the fellows I met at ACCS and absolutely fell in love with OKC (passing strange, I admit). The aw shucks that eventually drove me away struck me as rather endearing quirkiness at first.

The only thing I would want to add to Bill's lists of gravamina against the place is the lack of denominational connection. I have no bias against nondenominational schools as such, but it may be that a direct church connection adds another layer of oversight and responsibility that might help an academically- or administratively-challenged school stay on track, or tracs.

I do wish them well out there, but I have had more substantial discussion of theology in two or three half-hour exploratory conversations with other seminaries' deans than I did in all conversations [not in-class time] with ACCS personnel combined.

 

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With the permission of Unizul , a local prof of Greek and NT who has the PhD from Dallas TS examines as an informal, external reader each chapter, after I write, of the UZ dissertation. I do this because I'm neither a professional theologian, in the sense of earning a living by that, nor an expert in the Biblical languages. But the dissertion much uses exegesis and interacts with practically all major doctrines as an approach to the study of one, narrow doctrine.

Yesterday we talked for an hour about chapter 5. In that hour I was able to test the accuracy of my exegeses and the logic of my arguments. While I came away with a confidence that it was unlikely that significant challenges to the premises of that chapter could be made, I definitely benefitted from that interaction by the several criticisms my reader offered. Some probing questions were asked. EG, how does Molinism relate to divine sovereignty and omniscience? These meetings are "mini defenses" of the dissertation chapter by chapter.

This is the sort of stuff which I see lacking in the ACCS curricula. Write a paper, get a grade, write a paper, get a grade! Where is the challenge to grow by prof remarks on those papers? In my case, there was none! But such should be there as part of the evaluation of student papers. Profs should use their comments on papers to promote further education. The quality of professorial comments undoubtedly has a high correlation to the academic qualifications of those profs! This interaction in my case did not occur. Again, I'm only refering to Bib/Theo, not ministry courses!

IMO, there is no good reason why ACCS profs cannot spend an hour, eg, by email, to provide interaction on papers submitted by DL students to spur on the further learning of those students. These profs need to do more than put grades down. Those students are in the charge of those profs, and the study of Biblical Theology is a holy task not to be lightly done.

My goal is to defend the rights of students and the honor of the discipline, not to save ACCS from TRACS.

 

where does all of the money go?

First of all, Thankyou Bill and UnC. I appreciate your answers and the spirit in which they were given. For what is worth you have my respect.
I have issues with several things over my time with accs. Probably some of the same oddities that you both struggled with through the years.
I am amazed that a school with so many students does not have the resources to keep up their web page, hire a few more faculty, and fix their problems. I wonder where the money goes. Maybe i am ignorant of many of the financial issues a school faces, in fact i know i am.

At times i look at the Trinity (Newburgh) web sight and am amazed at the sharpness and attractivness of the sight.
it would seem that a school that is so heavily involved in distance ed would do more with their web page and keep it more up to date.

It also appears that Trinity is hiring more faculty with top notch degrees. I know they all don't live in the Evansville area. So why can't a school hire more ajunct profs.

I must admit to you guys that i am doing a little of wishful thinking. I hope that they pull out of their dive. I don't have as much as some invested, but have felt confortable with the school and hope that things will change.

Men

I Thank You

 

Right, guys. I also had in mind something less specific than the kind of interaction Bill reports--which indeed ought to be pretty normal in any doc program, whether academic or professional.

It's the sense in talking with people that you're talking to profs who are really learned in their field. This isn't necessarily just being bombarded with arcana. Some wear their learning lightly, and some ponderously. That doesn't matter. When you don't hit depth in their often off-the-cuff verbal responses, but superficialities and genial cliches, it leaves you wondering how it is that they can sit in judgment on your own work.

I never had that sense of depth in dealing with ACCS. It seemed more like dealing with an elevator operator rather than an elevator engineer. This in turn made the work tedious, because there seemed to be little thought behind assignments or course content, little sense as work went on that anything much was being discovered (practically or theoretically). I find busywork profoundly demotivating, and so it was with this school.

I hope they improve.

 

Trinity of Indiana, IMO, compares most favorably with ACCS in at least three areas. One, is interaction. In the Trinity T-Delta forum one can get quick responses to questions. It was my experience though, that neither at Trinity was there much use of probing questions on papers. This is a deficit, I think.

The second is faculty. Every "prof" I had "at" Trinity had an accredited PhD/ThD in the field in which he taught.

Third, and here Barry will disagree, I think, Trinity's course requirements were more weighty than ACCS's. The MA student did not do the same as the PhD student as at ACCS. Oh, there was a huge lapover of materials which was improper...same books, same cassettes. But the PhD student was expected to do more.

Yet doctoral work in Bible should utilize the Biblical languages. Trinity did not require that. But at least when I wrote, as an example, in my last Trinity paper, "The structure in Ephesians 2:20 and 3:5 is a TSKS pattern with plurals...", the prof who had the PhD from DTS knew what I was talking about.

Nevertheless the years of persistent and pervasive deceitfulness of Trinity re accreditation taints every area of the good in that program in my opinion .

Robert, I know I come off harsh. And I know my opinions go through some changes as I think on this issues quite a bit. You and North need to know that I'm on your side. And, I'm on the side too of ACCS to the degree that ACCS improves the areas which need attention.

 

Fortunately, past years may indeed be rectified.

 

Re: where does all of the money go?

Trinity is in rather an interesting situation. I have a current catalogue and they come across much more professionally than ACCS, and have far more qualified faculty. They appear on the verge of RA candidacy.

My problem with them still is some lingering feelings about MDS & the merky Liverpool accreditation issue. After feeling somewhat burned by ACCS, I am hesitant to jump at Trinity in spite of great tuition rates.

North

 

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IMO, to desist in lying when the lie is no longer needed is not a fruit of the Spirit but an accomodation of the flesh. It may be a rectification for the future, but it is not any remorse for the past. A baptism in regional accreditation is no evidence of repentance for years of misrepresentation about accreditation. While I dote on rigor and espouse accreditation these are no substitutes for character in the leadership of Christian schools. For any to think, not you Russell I know, that RA washes whiter than snow shows that one to be not just in the world but of it too.

 

BEHOLD, IF ANY BE IN RA HE IS A NEW CREATURE!

Please forgive the appearance of my self -righteous attitude. In case it's not clear, my own behavior misses the mark more often than it hits it. I know that , but not as well as God does. And any comment I make about the many past TTS misrepresentations is not meant to question the integrity of TTS students or faculty or even the TTS leadership in other areas than in running the school. Were TTS to get RA, then if one can in his mind insulate a shameful past from a future shekinah then, I'd say, "Enroll."

 

Re: BEHOLD, IF ANY BE IN RA HE IS A NEW CREATURE!

Unfortunately, we must all "insulate a shameful past from a future shekinah." Some more shameful than others.

Fortunately, the insulation of redemption is available.

 

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Redemption is by blood not by coverup
By repentance not by RA

 

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True indeed, Bill. However, institutions as such cannot repent, and blood doesn't cover entities. Institutions can alter a course of action, choose a different route, and begin the trek on the straight and narrow.

Just look at the small but significant number of liberals who have changed their party affiliation to become conservatives. For a season they traversed the broad way that leads to........ummm, discombobulation. But now, they have changed highways, and travel a narrow--but more secure--road. So, it is possible to amend one's ways, choose a better route and move forward with a greater degree of credibility.

 

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MDS and "Canterbury" aren't even past. Of course, NCU and SCUPS...

 

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Leaders may indeed do so, institutions cannot.

One of the great aspects of grace is that one need not list all past sins on one's website, CV, resume or front lawn. For this I am thankful.

Russell,

Who in 1976 traveled I-40 at 72.4 mph, while the posted speed limit was 70. Forgive me guys.

 

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Russell , My Holiness - Preacher Friend:

I always am amazed how differently we Christians conceive of what pleases Christ and what of what is important to Him.

I recall how your great umbrage over me saying 'damn' caused me to sit for six hours in ashes and sackcloth. But dirty not the nice suits of the Trinity bigwigs. Besides God just laughed along with TTS at their deceptions, I'm sure. But , Oh Yes, God genuinely was repulsed when I said "damn." I'm sure your right, Russell.

What a clever technique you have as argument. First, you ignore Biblical aspects of repentance. Biblical repentance involves confession. Case in point is the Ephesians in Acts 19 who burnt their lying books in public and made open, public confession. Oh see the TTS administrators there on the lawn in Indiana burning those lying catalogues and confessing, "Yes, we deceived God's people." But no, spare them that. Such openess to truth might , afterall, close the flow of cash into the Trinity coffers. We cannot have that. So, ignore the good example of the Ephesians.

Then, you parallel the Trinity sin with your speeding 2 mph over the limit. That's right reduce what Trinity did to that. Good logic! Indeed, a good comparison! How silly it would be, we all can see, for you to post an apology. So, the TTS fibbers are excused and need no confession for their lies since you yourself do not for your speeding. Weghty argument into absurdium.

Then , TTS confessing one sin is compared to our confessing ALL sins. How did that happen? One=all? Sigh another good befuddling.

Then you argue that institutions cannot apologize. Why not? Why cannot whoever lied confess it?

Now, I might think that picking and choosing what sins to be offended over, and basing opinions on poor arguments, rather than eliciting a doctrine of repentance from Biblical examples ,might fit poorly with preaching Bible holiness. But I am wrong for you are the holiness preacher, not I. So,

preach a good sermon today.

 

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Bill,

Keep in mind that our banter is in jest, knowing your historical affinity for TTS. I tried to make the choice to refrain from such triviality, but alas, it has been decreed so.

 

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