ACCS: What are their chances?

Hi Bill,
It isn't just the level of faculty credentials I'm referring to, but the actual number of faculty on staff. Last I heard they had over 1,000 students but I think there are only about 10 faculty (maybe a couple more or less). How is it possible to interact, grade, etc....with that type of load?

BLD

 

Student/Teacher ratio: 1/100

How could one prof possibly interact, grade, etc....with this type of load? Perhaps as effectively as a pastor who serves a church of 100..............

 

When I went to university, a full load for a prof was about 3 classes of about 50 students or 150 students. They managed.

 

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Perhaps it isn't possible. One TRACS standard concerns interaction. But I got practically none of this at ACCS.

Yet, if a prof teaches but 5 on campus courses a semester with 25 in a class, that could equal up to a "caseload" of 125 students.

If a prof works DL only and if a student submits one paper per month, about my average, and if the prof grades and interacts on that submission in one hour-I don't think my submissions received that much time-, then, a prof could handle at that rate 160 DL students---if he/she had nothing else to do on the job.

As an aside , a high school teacher might teach 150 kids a semester easily plus do bus duty, fac mtgs, parent contacts, paper grading etc.

 

Prior to ACCS, both my undergraduate and graduate schools had about a 1/15 Teacher/Student ratio.

BLD

 

I've noticed ACCS has recently been running a lot of radio advertising. Perhaps to drum up more revenue?

 

Where/what stations?

 

Where/what stations?

 

I heard it on KKSL (1290 AM Lake Oswego, OR) Small station that fades out by Albany, OR. If it was on that one, I'm sure they are running it in other markets. I was driving South on I-5 toward Eugene OR when I found it on the "search" button on the car radio. (How much Rush can one take?)

 

Thanks, Jerry. I'm in a radio dead zone with nothing but horrid religious stations and intermittent Radio Havana, but I may try to take a listen. They might retain students better if they'd actually send out their newsletter, post the summer schedule for the current (not last year), and quit charging for the catalogue.

 

ACCS tends to do things rather strangely. I never got an official welcome to the program as I did with other doctoral programs I enrolled in and never did anything with. In that sense ACCS does not make you feel connected. I do not need a bunch of warm fuzzies on my papers (etc) but it does make you feel connected to have calls returned at least after the third or fourth time, and to receive newsletters, etc.

North

 

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I agree that one doing a doctorate by DL should need few warm fuzzies and little hand holding. In my ACCS experience the only course requirements were papers. What is needed instead is attention to these by qualified profs.

What is required for any semblance of quality in a doc program IMO is considerable interaction between the prof and the student over the submitted papers. These as the vehicles of learning must be rigorously evaluated. How will the student otherwise grow?

If the prof will not spend the time and energy to critique student papers and by suggestions and comments on those papers lead the student to higher ground, then rigor is not likely occuring. In the ACCS DL format that education mostly occurs in the papers. But if the student only learns by the writing of the papers, and not by the evaluation of the papers, then why even submit them?

If the evaluations of the papers do not effect further learning, but the student's learning is acquired rather only by the textbooks and supplemental readings, then who needs a prof at all? Hire some secretary to mark off assignments done. Fire those DL profs who contribute nothing to learning anyway.

But for a DL prof to guide a student in learning by paper evaluations it is required both that there are enough profs for the student to receive enough guidance time AND that the profs are qualified by education to give scholarly guidance.

One with a DMin in Pastoral Studies is not by that degree qualified to teach systematic or historical Theology or Biblical Studies at the graduate level. TRACS says this and it is easily demonstrable.

Student writes in his Christology paper: Mere enhypostasia as taught by Leonitius does not answer the human psuche or pneuma to which the Logos was joined in the hypostatic union as a psuche implies a human personality not just a divine one!

One prof says: A+

Other prof says: Then explain how unless it is the Logos as the center of the Person of Christ that Nestorianism is avoidable. And does having psuche require autonomy? And what does "joined" mean? And if a mere human died on a cross would that be redemptive? And how would enhypostasia differ from anhypostasia practically?

By such questions on the paper the second prof earns his keep by presenting to the student new areas of research. If the student desires an education and the school desires to give one, then the prof needs to do more than put down a grade.

The goal should be an education not just a degree.

 

Whether you like it or not Bill, what you are essentially backing up is the argument that doctoral level study ought to be done in residence. It is throught this process & working under the prof that the student likely gains most from the didactic experience.

Frankly, I graduated froma top tier regional university and got little more commentary on my papers than I did at ACCS. That concerned me less than what seems to have been a fairly common experience in administrative incompetence (lost files, non returned calls, messed up registrations, etc). This manifested itself in the apparent inability of the internal systems in ACCS to stay in compliance with TRACS requirements.

The profs I had contact with at ACCS in my program had PhD's and judging by their guidance in the ARP (dissertation) were very thorough. You seem to have had more DMin's. Were you unaware of the fact that your Biblical Studies program was being guided by folks with DMin's. You seem to be quite upset and yet as I recall from the catalogue it was fairly obvious this was the case. As I said I had PhD's but would have not had too much concern due to the fact that my area was practical.

I am not sure why you went with ACCS when based on your desires you certainly should have been aware from the start that your program would be guided by DMin's & not ThD's from Dallas Theological Seminary. I think you have found a better fit in the UNIZUL DTh. The faculty at UNIZUL have impeccable credentials juding by the curriculum vita of Loubser & Song.

Good luck Bill. I am sure you will do very well.

North

 

My DMin (RA/ATS) experience was somewhat similar. The commentary per paper was mediocre, certainly nothing extensive. The dissertation process involved only minimal interaction with my advisor, although he was available when needed. Upon submission of the initial draft, only minor editing was recommended--no revisions at all. The remaining two members of the committee read and approved the dissertaton, but made no suggestions or recommendations of any kind.

 

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North:

I think one could apply my argument to whether doctoral work should be in residence or by DL. But it certainly also has applications to those situations when doc work is done by only or mostly the latter. Distance does not make impossible interaction. Not to observe the need for such interaction would be to say that it matters not whether a prof comments on papers. It certainly does matter.

Instruction through probing questions is an excellent mode of instruction. To say it applies only to residential settings IMO is incorrect. I believe the TRACS standards support me in saying considerable interaction should occur at the grad level. I don't think that TRACS section about quality grad work is directed at lost files but rather at lost opporunities to learn.

Despite your top tier experience, Biblical /Theological papers need such comments by profs. I could prove this with little effort and quite simply on one of my ACCS papers*** or on one of yours.

I'm glad your ACCS profs had terminal docs. I believe no one at ACCS in my hard cover catalogue has a PhD/ThD in Bible/Theo. So, your question, "Well, didn't you know" is a fair one. My opinion of what is needed to teach rigorous grad level Bib/Theo is evolving. You may recall not too long ago I thought Liverpool was an excellent accreditor of Trinity. I'm learning as I go.

I apologize that when I enrolled in ACCS it did not occur to me that a DMin in how to be a pastor does not qualify one to teach Bib/Theo at the grad level. However, when my courses began to be done and my papers began to be returned I began to be concerned. Sorry that I am a slow learner. Regardless, it is TRACS standards, re PhDs/ThDs not DMins, not mine, that ACCS has failed to meet. That ACCS has failed is not due to my misunderstanding.

I still am of the opinion that probing questions should be used in teaching by qualified profs!



***Here's an example from an ACCS paper called The Omniscience of God and The Betrayal By Judas'."

I write,

"Wallace [DTS NT prof] says that verbs of perception when applied to Jesus do not require us to assume His divine nature is at work."

NO PROF COMMENT MADE

Rather some pertinent probing questions by a prof should have made as :

1) What is a nature?

2) Does a nature 'work"?

3. Does Jesus' human nature ever function apart from the divine?

4. Is the human nature, then, omniscient too?

5. If such verbs do not indicate deity, then is Jesus divine?

6. Which verbs does Wallace mean and in what form do they occur?

7. On what basis does Wallace say this?

8. Are things ever said of Jesus with reference only to the human nature? What things? Why?

9. How does Wallaces statement connect to the communication of attributes in Christ?

10.How is the omniscience in Jesus different than the gift of knowledge or the Spirit in the Christian?

Why should a prof just assume these questions would be resolved in a student's mind without such probes? And if such questions are not considered, how is the program rigorous?


Thankyou for your well wishes re UZ. I wish the same for you in your program.

 

Perhaps a requirement of a certain amount of clock time in discussion with the teacher might meet some of these objections.

 

ACCS students appear to be more realistic about ACCS present predicament. Like TUI students, most ACCS students are very contented with their programs but unlike TUI students they have so far shunned excessive and unnecessary defense of ACCS on this forum.

Ike Okonkwo, PhD

 

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Makes sense.

I would like it explained to me why a prof cannot email a student 10-12 probing questions about each paper and base the grade for that paper in part on the quality of student responses to those questions emailed back to the prof. I believe that would much increase student learning. By doing that the DL prof earns his salary in a far more thorough manner than by simply putting down a grade or a brief comment. Such interaction far from being prevented by DL studies should be required for DL studies.

 

Bill, would you have dropped your accs studies if the tracs issued had not come up? Have you shared your complaints with accs? Will you continue with accs if the tracs issues is resolved and accs keeps their accreditation?
It seems that you are quick to jump ship or has this been in the works for sometime?

Just curious

Robert

 

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Robert

I will always try to answer you sincerely.

My reasons include personal financial problems. That's true!

But I had been increasingly frustrated for a spell, even before our family budget got tighter ,about the lack of meaningful responses to papers. I've taught school for 34 years and know the value of spurring on student learning by asking probing questions. I don't recall that ACCS profs ever asked one of me. No, I have not complained to ACCS.

Had the TRACS issue not come up, I would not have been aware of the TRACS standard that grad studies in Bib/Theol be taught by those with accredited terminal docs in those areas. This insight greatly affected my final decision.

The issue is not just accreditation. I need to feel that my profs are teaching me something in courses through the evaluations of my papers! The courses I took, BTW, are not at doctoral level.

To me it is vital that Theo/Bib be studied rigorously at the grad level. TRACS is implying that this is not occuring at ACCS because of the lack of faculty qualified by terminal degrees, because of the coursework, and because of the lack of interaction between grad students and profs. Again I'm not taling about Counseling etc.

While I may have been quick to judge ACCS, TRACS has not. These standards have been in place for some time.