ABA recommends dropping LSAT requirement

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by SweetSecret, May 7, 2022.

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  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Correct! :)
     
  2. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    American Samoa is not part of the United States. Neither are Guam, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, or the US Virgin Islands even though persons born in the last four territories are US citizens at birth. American Samoans are non citizen nationals of the US (unless one or both parents was a US citizen.)

    It’s a long story. A very long story. A very long, very depressing story.
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Cool. No, because back then they didn't have a set curriculum. In fact, even having a transcript was optional. And if you did have a transcript, listing credit hours was optional. I opted for a transcript, but not credit hours.

    To answer (again) the original question, I was NOT an "ABD" when I enrolled at Union. Back then, no matter whatever doctoral work you'd done in the past--and I had done none--you had to do a complete program (which could build upon what you'd already done).
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    They are not states, but how are they not part of the United States of America? And if not them, then what about the District of Columbia?
     
  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    About the simplest way to explain it is to invite you to go to Wikipedia and look up the "insular cases". Extremely basically, these places are possessions of the United States that have not been incorporated into the United States. The U.S. constitution does not fully apply to these territories or their residents.

    This means, for example, that the U.S. citizens born there do not derive citizenship from the 14th Amendment. Rather, they receive it through Acts of Congress. The residents of these possessions do not vote in Presidental elections and have no voting representation in Congress. They do not pay federal income tax as a result. There are other significant consequences as well.

    This status is by no means a mere artifact of the American colonialism era. The current legal and social consequences are many and profound.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  6. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Those territories are part of the U.S. For the most part, they are extended many of the same privileges. They can also choose to move stateside to enjoy all the privileges, including voting in presidential elections. I travel to U.S. VI and PR using my driver's license just as I would flying between states.

    "U.S. Citizens and Lawful Permanent Residents (LPR's) who travel directly from U.S. territories to the United States, which include American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the US Virgin Islands without touching at a foreign port or place, are not required to present a valid U.S. Passport or U.S. Green Card."
    https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-980?language=en_US


    The idea that the Constitution does not apply to the territories is based on racist reasonings. It is also a discriminatory law why American Samoans are nationals and not citizens.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/john-oliver-puerto-rico_n_6833310
    https://atlantablackstar.com/2017/10/19/insular-cases-puerto-rico-u-s-virgin-islands-colonies-not-states/
     
  7. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    It's more complicated than that. No, those territories aren't part of the US and in some cases their governments object to being incorporated into the US because then the whole constitution would apply and that would cause upheaval in their societies.

    Read up on how Samoan property law works and you will see. Incorporation into the US would mean that the Samoans could not restrict property ownership to Samoans as they do now. A flock of tech billionaires could buy up the place and end their clan system forever.
     
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  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I'll give you another, subtler example. Congress has complete power to acquire and dispose of "territorial possessions". The US has twice granted independence to possessions, Cuba and the Philippines.

    Congress has no power to allow any part of the United States to depart the Union. If Congress ever incorporated Puerto Rico, not only would PR residents be required to pay all federal taxes on the same footing as all other citizens and residents of the United States, independence would probably become a legal impossibly.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  9. Futuredegree

    Futuredegree Well-Known Member

    I think we all went off topic here haha
     
  10. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Is it really a DI thread if it doesn't go off-topic? Conversation dies so quickly when we stay focused. Maybe we all have ADHD.
     
    TEKMAN, Rachel83az and Futuredegree like this.
  11. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Futuredegree and JBjunior like this.
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    That's a good question. PR has three law schools each of which is ABA accredited. But the PR legal establishment is (ahem) a law unto itself. I'd love to take the Bar exam. The essay questions are written in Spanish but the answers may be written in English or Spanish. I think their multiple choice questions are all Spanish. PR is a "mixed" jurisdiction with elements of Spanish Civil Law and American common law.
     
  13. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Well-Known Member

    I actually wonder which law schools will be the first law schools to do away with the requirement. I spoke to the previous dean of the local school who said basically good riddance about the LSAT and that maturity of a student is a much better indicator of potential student success.

    With that said, I am interested to continue the discussions about territories too because I have considered both going to PR for school and potentially practicing outside the mainland or the US. I would love to get into a school that offers a dual law degree in both the U.S. and Mexico, but I only know of two programs like that. Additionally, my Spanish is not strong, so I probably would not be eligible for one. I know at least one of the PR schools has the law program in English, and living there would give me an opportunity to become fluent in Spanish. The two downsides to the PR schools are 1) their bar pass rates do not seem great and 2) I'm not sure if they still do, but they used to require another exam in addition to the LSAT.
     
  14. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    PR has two Bar exams actually. There's the commonwealth Bar for the usual "state" court system which is given in Spanish and there’s a separate, rather unusual federal Bar exam for the U.S. District Court. That one is in English and covers federal practice and procedure.
     
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  15. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Well-Known Member

    That is good to know! I was referring to one of the entrance exams that used to be required by the PR law schools in addition to the LSAT. However, knowing about the separate state and federal tests is extremely helpful.
     

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