A.T. Still University

Discussion in 'Nursing and medical-related degrees' started by haestra, May 13, 2009.

  1. nick94

    nick94 New Member

    You wouldn't expect everything he said to be correct would you? Not picking a side but a guy's book on "medicine" written in 1899 would probably have some problems in today's day and age. He also could have thought this was a cure for croup because it always worked.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2018
  2. warguns

    warguns Member


    It is obvious that these poorly-trained chiropractics should never be used as primary care providers. However a referral from a MD or OD might be appropriate for

    Chiropractic care is used most often to treat neuromusculoskeletal complaints, including but not limited to back pain, neck pain, pain in the joints of the arms or legs, and headaches. http://www.acatoday.org/

    There is some good evidence that it can be useful in the treatment of back pain.

    However, some chiropractics, termed ""straights", now the minority, emphasize vitalism, innate intelligence and spinal adjustments, and consider subluxations to be the leading cause of all disease"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic

    For this nonsense, no one has ever improved upon HL Menken's essay,


    In addition, some chiropractics reject science altogether:

    "Vitalism .... is a "belief that life processes are not explicable by the laws of physics and chemistry alone, and that life is in some part self-determining," http://www.chiroweb.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=40407
  3. DrGregory

    DrGregory New Member

    Good science in the later 19th century was the exception, rather than the rule. I remember reading Still's books as a premedical student and I recall numerous passages like the ones you've quoted. Like you, I met these passages with the same degree of skepticism. Still, like many physicians of his day, was apprentice-trained and likely didn't possess the skills to even practice good science. Really, all he did was foster a movement to develop a separate but equal branch of healing. This movement was born out of a rejection of the MD practices of the time, both medical and social (almost near exclusion of women/minorities) which he was trained in. Over time, as better and safer treatment options were developed, these were incorporated into the osteopathic education while much of what Still originally espoused was abandoned. What does remain is our philosophical emphasis on the whole person, which translates into our educational emphasis on training primary care physicians (family doctors, internists, ob/gyns, pediatricians).

    Personally, I cannot recall one single episode during my training where any physician claimed that osteopathic manipulation would "cure" disease. Rather, these were taught to augment recovery (just as physical therapists do, as noted above).

    So in sum, taking issue with DOs today because of the actions and writings of a 19th-century, apprentice-trained MD seems a bit nonsensical.
  4. DrGregory

    DrGregory New Member

    Listen, I just reviewed this thread I find it is really no longer productive. If anyone has any questions about osteopathic medicine, feel free to drop me a line and I'll be happy to answer them. I also earned my MPH from ATSU while I was in residency several years ago, so I'll he happy to answer questions about that program as well.

    To the original poster of this thread, I am sorry that this thread was hijacked. Best of luck in your studies at ATSU if you choose to pursue that route. I assure you that your education will be free of "quacks." :D
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2018
  5. warguns

    warguns Member


    Again, perhaps I haven't made myself sufficiently clear. Here's what I have previously written.

    No one disputes that DOs are as qualified as MDs to practice medicine ...​


    Does a DHS degree from AT Still carry a stigma by being associated with him? Anyone who has studied the history of medicine knows that A.T. Still was a charlatan and a quack. Will that knowledge translate into prejudice against DHS graduates from A.T. Still University?​

    Still's own writing shows he was a quake and a fraud. The book quoted where he advocated using ear wax and osteopathy to cure croup was published in 1899. This was a textbook for his new osteopathic school. It's one thing to forgive an old country doctor for not keeping up with medical journals. It's quite another to claim to have found new principles of medicine and set up a school to teach them.

    Imagine if osteopathy, as advocated by Still, had been used to treat yellow fever and malaria during the building of the Panama Canal?

    Still believed that malaria was caused by an "overload of the lymphatic system" from the sun's rays and believed that "colored man" is immune because the sun's rays are modified when they strike his skin! He believed that buggy tops and umbrellas could prevent malaria and he advocated treating malaria by "adjust(ing) the lumbar vertebrae"! (1910)

    This was written 8 years after Ronald Ross won the Noble Prize for proving malaria was caused by a parasite vectored by a specific breed of mosquito. In my opinion, someone writing a medical textbook should be aware of Noble Prize research.

    Conclusion: A.T. Still was a charlatan and a quack. The question is: would a DHS degree from the university named for him be stigmatized?
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2009
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    If you agree that ATSU's DO degree, a medical program to train physicians, has earned acceptance, then why would you be this concerned that their other programs, which are not medical, are somehow suspect? :confused:

  7. warguns

    warguns Member

    AT Still

    Because DOs must take licensing examinations just like MDs, quality control is built into the program.

    There's no external control over what's taught in a DHS or DHE program, and whether correct or not, I think the assumption will be that osteopathic ideology might be included. This effect is magnified for a degree from A.T. Still University because anyone with training in the history of American medicine identifies that name with quackery.

    I want to emphasize that I have no knowledge whatever about what is actually taught in the AT Still DHE or DHS programs, I'm just suggesting that these are reasonable assumptions that people will make.

    Finally, lest it be assumed that all of osteopathy has abandoned Still's nitwit philosophy, http://www.interlinea.org/atstill.html shows that some take this stuff perfectly seriously
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2009
  8. GlobalHealthExpert

    GlobalHealthExpert New Member

    Greetings to all. Although this thread is old, I feel compelled to respond due to the abundance of incorrect and misleading information. The D.H.Sc. programs at A.T. Still University and Nove Southeastern University are high quality and excellent for healthcare professionals seeking training in applied research and translational science. I am a graduate of the program in addition to Vanderbilt University, Duke University, Virginia Commonwealth University, and the University of Missouri. And, presently I am completing post doctoral studies in evidence-based health care at the University of Oxford (Oxford, UK). In addition, I have received NIH funding for translational research, published about 20 peer reviewed papers, and presented at more than 50 professional and scientific conferences with rigorous peer review process for paper submissions. Obviously, I would not have attended the program and then continued to Oxford if the university or the program was not high quality. I hope my posting is helpful to correct these postings excessive in seemingly biased opinion and limited in evidence. Take care.
  9. warguns

    warguns Member

    The above looks like a plant from the PR Department at AT Still. Note, it is this users first and only post.

    For those who are unaware, A.T.Still was the founder of the superstition osteopathy. He believed that most, if not all, diseases were caused by a misalignment of the spine. Old A.T. and his il-educated family refused to accept the "germ" theory of illness even after Koch and Pasteur. Fortunately modern osteopathy has discarded almost of that nonsense but maintains a very, very slight interest on spinal manipulation.
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    To me it looks more like a graduate who sees an interest in promoting the school that's on his CV. It's still a reason to take his review with a grain of salt without a default assumption of conspiracy.

    Right, and Andrew Taylor Still's beliefs were scientifically unfounded, but that's not relevant to ATSU today. It's like making fun of dumb things Thomas Jefferson believed as though they were relevant to today's University of Virginia.
    airtorn likes this.
  11. Saleemah

    Saleemah New Member

    Some DHSc programs require a doctoral project instead of a dissertation. At ATSU the Applied Research Project consists of five parts however each part is a class. The five sections are the literature review, proposal, data collection, data analysis, and dissemination. The dissemination class is where the project is presented. You are really giving an oral defense of your project you present. The quality required for a dissertation is also required for the applied research project. The only difference is the applied research project is smaller in scope.

    The research has to be approved by the Institutional Review Board (IRB) before it can be done which is required in a dissertation program. I recently completed the DHSc program at ATSU and I have no regrets. The work is challenging an requires dedication, commitment and focus. I hope this information is helpful.

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