50% of new grads are unemployed or underemployed...a sign of the times

Well, let's see...I basically said people need to work hard and stop expecting to have everything handed to them simply because they have a degree, and they need to choose practical majors. Oh yes...I'm big pimpin' in my ivory tower.

 

Sheesh a post about personal responsibility gets you labeled as an ivory tower elite? Wow.

Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcomes.

 

I also think that more students should be steered toward practical/technical careers. We often hear how today's college students need so much more remedial studies (in math and English for example) than they have in years past. I believe the biggest reason for this is not a huge decline in what students learn in high school, but a huge increase in the numbers of students pushed to go to college.

I interviewed past gifted graduates from my area for my dissertation. One important finding was that several of these gifted young adults stated that the foreigners whom they had gotten to know in college were rather surprised with the American view that you should pursue what you love in college, rather than pursuing what was most likely to result in a career with gainful employment.

Because I was raised in the school or hard knocks (or maybe it is just my personality) I never would have considered going to college at all unless I had a career in mind. I did not plan to go to college when I was in high school. I remember being surprised when some of my friends said they were just getting a liberal arts degree in anything because they just wanted to further their education. I didn't get that then and I still don't...unless you love college, can afford it without borrowing money, and won't really need to worry about supporting yourself with a career. In that case, do whatever you want and you are very lucky! (But apparently it doesn't fit for most of us here).

I do think I instilled in my kids that when they went to college, they needed to have something in mind as to where it would take them.

My oldest started out saying she wanted to be a medical doctor, but changed her mind during her first year. She then faltered from everything from a liberal arts degree in anything, to something like Journalism. I'm not knocking journalism and if she really put her heart into that, she probably would have done fine with it, even making a living doing it.

But when she was indecisive, I gave her a huge push toward computer programming. It is a long story, but I got her to transfer schools and register for that major. She later told me that after I left that day, she planned to go right to the administration and change her major! But a Computer Science professor talked to her and changed her mind. She did add another major as well as computer science: Math.

Well, she ended up getting a Ph.D. in Computer Science and was hired immediately in a very prestigious research lab at MIT where she has been for about three years now.

My second daughter started out with the idea of majoring in physics/engineering at Princeton, but she ended up changing her major to Asian Cultures! People ask me what she will "do" with that major.

I actually believe she will do well with it. She travels the world and has internships already. She wants to be a college professor but is open to whatever position might open for her. My son didn't go to college. He drives truck for a living and is starting his own water well drilling business. He has chosen a hard life for himself, but I guess he will likely fare about as well as anybody else.

 

I have this sense that our culture is becoming myopic when it comes to education and careers. Yes, careers are important. But to me, 'a career' is not the primary reason one should attend undergrad. Rather, it should be about enabling one to become better informed about the world, and be better equipped as a citizen. As the father of a 17 year old who is nearly ready for college, I'm encouraging her to pursue a good liberal arts degree as a solid base. Yes, she will likely enter the workforce at 'the bottom of the pile' for little more than what she would get right out of high school. However, I have seen time-after-time, that liberal arts grads who are willing to 'pay their dues' typically make for the most versatile employees and typically have rewarding careers.

 

I think people focus on the career aspects of an education because that's how college is sold to them. "Get a college degree and you'll make a million dollars more over your career than a high school grad." Public schools seem to be the ones pushing this stat more often than not.

 

Undergrad school is more of the jumping off point for college. Yes, do something you're interested. But always keep in mind that this is your foundation for whatever you do later on. Its important that you find something that interests you, or you'll never finish school at all. BUT, you have to be smart about it, too. If you love philosophy but dont want to get a PhD or work at a museum, then do your electives in philosophy or do a double major in that and something practical that can be actually used. Its all about balance.

 

I went through a Cosmetology program right out of high school back in 1991. My dad was going to buy me my own shop.....I could've rented booths to other hairdressers. Men tipped liked CRAZY and were in and out of my chair in 10 minutes. Would've been a nice cash flow had I stuck it out and took my dad's offer. I quit because I thought I should be using my mind more because I was on the gifted side academically.

Now, here I sit in my early 40's -- a BA, MA, and MBA under my belt, along with nearly 90K in student loans, and no job prospects. I am now looking for a Ph.D. program in the hopes that a doctorate will help me land more adjunct teaching positions (no benefits, low pay, fun stuff).

University should only be used for obtaining state licensure -- RNs, teachers, surgeons, vets, etc. A degree just to say you have a degree does very little and only for a select few.

We are a nation of salesmen and tradesman. Ideally, you're a bull shooter and can sell blind ladies glasses......the rest of us folks-of-integrity are screwed. If you want to make money, get in a service business, or get a degree that will fill a needful area (I'd be an RN if I could stomach blood). Even teachers in my area (Southeast Gulf Coast) can't find jobs right out of college -- they're having to travel into distant counties to find work (some just part-time in tutoring positions).

I'm wondering why our government is so freely handing out student loan money knowing there are not enough job vacancies for all of these recent grads to fill. Why is Uncle Sam wanting so many people indebted to them? Are they just letting us remain on the treadmill of false hope so we won't all just give up and move to the mountains with our tents?? I could do with some relaxing fishing everyday -- now that makes a good meal......

 

I'd also like to add that my parents have been incorporated for over 41 years in a service industry -- HVAC. My dad has had no more than one other serviceman in addition to himself and he makes nearly a quarter million a year. It's hot here and that makes people crazy.....my dad passes work to other companies, he has so much.

Service. Fill an actual need and you'll make money. Used to, you could make a steady stream of money selling what people WANT, but need will always come before wants when money is tight. And if you can sell a disposable item (air filters, vacuum bags, etc), all the better.

 

One thing politicians like Obama and Pelosi like about people going to college is that it lowers the unemployment numbers because they are not actively seeking work. If you add back the people who retreated back to college due to a slowing economy, the numbers jump up fast.

 

What are your BA and MA degrees?

 

If you have a BA, MA, and MBA and still cannot find a job, I wonder if a PhD is really going to do much to help you. It will rack up more debt for you, but if a MBA isnt opening ANY doors for you AT ALL, then is going on for a PhD really the smart thing to do? What are the BA and MA in? I cant believe you have ABSOLUTELY zero job offers with 3 degrees. If thats truly the case (and its not a situation of you not liking the job or pay or benefits being offered) then I cant see how a PhD will benefit you much.

 

I think you have made some seriously bad choices with 90k in debt, 3 degrees and no job prospects. You should sit down and do a lot of thinking and research before you get another degree. You might be better off getting another BA in a field that can make you money then doing a PhD in the same field.

 

I had a job making close to six figures at 20 years old (with no degree). At 26, I had a career change and found another job making six figures (with no degree). Then the economy took a dump, I found myself underemployed for about 3 years while I finished my undergraduate, and now I'm on my third career making six figures.

Career prospects require a certain set of circumstances; right place/right time, common sense, and a drive to succeed. You have to be able to scan your surroundings and make opportunities happen. Stop sitting around waiting for things to come to you. Being underemployed can happen, but it doesn't mean you have to stay that way . . .

 

I say instead of getting a PhD go back to cosmetology school and update your license. See if your dad will still spring for that salon. I think there would be more money in that than racking up more student loan debt.

I'm not being sarcastic. My sister ran her own salon before she had kids and she made a good living.

 

If you are looking for an adjunct career, your education seems to be more than enough. You can always upgrade with certifications that are a lot cheaper than a PhD such as CMA, CFA, CPA, etc.

I would only consider a PhD if you could get into a good University that is at least AACSB accredited. Anything else would be just another degree in your resume that will put you in more debt.

 

Just out of curiosity...what do you do?

 

It's always easy to blame a person for the circumstances they find themselves in, because the present right in front of you is easier to judge than the past you didn't see. But, it takes an understanding person to consider that someone may have made many great choices but had many bad breaks. At the end of the day, all the pep talks and fallacy of dramatic instance recounting ("I did this great thing/saw this great thing happen so you should be able to do it, too") can't change the fact that there are only so many opportunities and some people lose out even though they're more intelligent, more driven, and overall more talented than the next person who just got the break that they didn't.

I often think about great books that never got published during the author's lifetime because the author got rejected until his dying day. All the great inventors and songwriters who never got their due because companies ripped them off, then discarded them like yesterday's garbage. Plenty of those people had all the mechanics necessary to succeed but never got the 'yes' they needed to make it to the next level.

When people talk about their success, they often forget that the salary they make, the notoriety they have, and whatever else, is only partly to do with them, because someone else had to recognize or at least believe that they were the right person for the opportunity and there are so many variables at play based on any given circumstance in any given moment, that often times there is no way to really pass it on to someone else. That's why all of these books and seminars on how to make a person successful have little effectiveness. It's not just because most people are slugs; it's also that just because something worked for Tom, it doesn't mean it'll work for Jim, even if Jim does everything to the letter that Tom did.

There are enough out-of-work degree holders with degrees in sought-after disciplines to consider that the easy route of blaming the degreed just doesn't carry as much weight as it once did, and that it's more appropriate to examine the entire system for its many problems. Not that we all aren't already aware of the system's problems and outright failings, but it's worth mentioning considering that some people tend to comment as if everything is hunky-dory, and if a person isn't succeeding it's all their fault.

 

Which career? (I've have four major career transitions)

Military (Enlisted)
Police Officer
Emergency Management Coordinator
Director of Environmental Health & Safety