$49K debt for daughters education...

These debacles happen again and again and AGAIN! They should NEVER be necessary - in fact they should be impossible to get into. But they're not. The downfall is made easy - lenders grease the skids for people. In Germany (and, I believe, some other European countries) University education is free - but you have to work hard in school to qualify your way in, and hard at Uni. on the way through. If they (Europeans) can do it, why can't America - or Canada, for that matter? We have our own misery-stories of education debt, but not NEARLY on the per-population scale of U.S.

 

Universities are NOT necessarily free in Germany, but they are vastly cheaper than in the US! I think the most expensive ones usually cost the equivalent of around $5k/year. So, you can get a degree for about $15k + living expenses (because they're often 3-year degrees). The downside is that you cannot really accelerate them AND they are locked off from students who don't have the correct academic qualifications.

 

Well, she makes a lot of mistakes with 'It's the only way for my kids to get an education and be successful. Nowadays, that is a false impression. Most Immigrant Asian-American parents that how to tackle their children's student loans. It is called COMMUNITY COLLEGE and working while studying. Perhaps, most of the time you are on your own.

 

So, while I think Parent PLUS loans are a good option for parents who can better shoulder the load, I don't think they're a good option when the child is also taking out loans (to the tune of $16K a year it looks like.)

My plan is to have enough in my 529 to send each kid to community college and then to explore options (to include PLUS loans) to help ensure both kids get their 4 year degree.

 

I don't consider either a downside. I think they're justified. YMMV, of course.

And:

"In 2014, Germany's 16 states abolished tuition fees for undergraduate students at all public German universities. This means that currently both domestic and international undergraduates at public universities in Germany can study for free, with just a small fee to cover administration and other costs per semester."

And:

Free Colleges in Germany

• Technical University of Munich.
• Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich.
• Humboldt University of Berlin.
• University of Hamburg.
• Free University of Berlin.
• RWTH Aachen University.
• University of Mannheim.
• University of Cologne.

 

The German policy, FREE TUITION AT ALL PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES does not apply at Die Alte und Freie Universität von Johann.
We're Private. And For-Profit. Our Latin motto, since 1368, has been "Ostende nobis pecuniam." Show us the money!

My point: Lots of tuition-free Uni. study available in Germany. Also Finland and IIRC Sweden. I'm pretty sure it's available in some other European countries too. They do it - why can't we? (US and Canada.)

 

Bin Thinkin. (My favourite terrorist!) Is it possibly because we're degree-crazy and believe EVERYBODY has to go to Uni or their lives will be a total catastrophic failure? And that no financial sacrifice is too great if it can possibly forestall such a dire event - even if the burden of debt itself is a replacement catastrophe?

"If we didn't eat Cheezy-Poofs, we'd all be lame." Eric Cartman - South Park.

 

Good point and may the west arrive at that realization! Surely there are profitable careers-a-plenty in both the trades and service industries (e.g., hospitality; tech) that greatly value experience and expertise over a degree.

 

Reminds me of an old story. A mother had three grown sons - a dentist, a lawyer and a plumber. She said of her plumber-son: "He's the one I never have to worry about." Something to that, I think.

Back in the 60's I got an invoice from a plumber. (True story, I swear!) On it was a printed motto: "Choose your plumber as carefully as you would your physician." Right! The plumber cost more!

 

I think lack of acceleration can be justified (or at least chalked up to a different system). Not so sure about the second one. I think in Germany they track kind in middle school; if you are not placed on the Gymnazium (sp?) track you're SOL. Unnecessarily rigid. Of course, no student debt part is great, and is how things should be.

 

That's spelled Gymnasium, Stanislav. Same as the English word, different meaning. I don't think Gymnazium would find any favour, in or outside Germany, today. The "s" is pronounced in that German word as a soft English "z" - e.g. zebra. So I can see where you got the idea.

 

Ontario used to be more restrictive than it is today. In my HS days (grad 1960) you picked the academic stream in Grade 9 if you intended to go to University. And if the school didn't think you'd do well there, based on your Middle School record, there may have been a fight to get into that stream. Fortunately, I was never part of one. The other possibilities were Art, Industrial (shop) and Commercial (office). Academic stream students stayed an extra year (5 years - Grade 13) if they intended to go to University. Anything less - no admission.

There were no Community Colleges until 1967. With Grade 12 alone there were few choices for further education: Teachers' College for K-8 (now requires degree) and a very few Polytechnics, like Ryerson, which is today a University. Grade 13 (5th year) was abolished some time around 2000 and you went directly to College or University after 4 years - Grade 12.

Talking to my now-grown grandchildren, it looks like you still have to make the right course choices in High School if you intend to go on. It's less restrictive, but you still have to have the courses that the tertiary schools require, and the marks they want, so you start preparing early. I'm fine with that.

 

They do start in Middle School, which is kind of rough & early, IMO. There are plenty of kids who can't deal with academics in elementary/middle school, then go on to perform amazingly well in HS and university. Then there are the students who do well in elementary and middle school, but that's where they plateau. They do terribly in HS and university.

I would hate to have my whole future decided by things I did when I was 10-13. I did well in school, but goodness I had no idea what I wanted to do/be. I still am not sure!

 

My story, too. And I'm 79. I've found one thing last year, completely by accident that REALLY interests me: Fashion Design and making clothes. I've been to very basic school for it and gotten started. If I want to be any good (and I do) I think I'd better hurry up....

 

I'd REALLY hate to have my whole future decided by things I did when I was around 40! Some awful years!