My alma mater is in the news! JLV, Thanks for the story. I don’t have any experience with IUP's business department but IUP is where I earned my bachelors degree.
I have a friend who's wryly suggested he may tell his daughter if she wants him to pay for college he'll only spring for a Heriot-Watt MBA, since it doesn't require a Bachelor's and would be more useful than one. -=Steve=-
Re: My alma mater is in the news! Well, in addition to that, they also have now the honor of having graduated the youngest person ever. Regards.
I think it may prove to be a mistake in the long term. That university may have easy entrance requirements, but their examinations are tough (but fair as Prof. Kennedy would say ). I suspect you may need a solid background, like that one a bachelor provides, to successfully write those final papers at the postgraduate level. I think in education there are not shortcuts, and even if what your friend says it is probably true, a good undergraduate education that exposes students to liberal arts and science is VERY important. When I was a young and helplessly dumb undergrad student, I didn’t understand why I did have to study sociology or history or humanities if my major was engineering. As an adult I realize those courses were crucial years later to the development of my professional career. Now I wish I had study more of those. In fact, in order to progress in my career, instead of studying an MBA that everyone has anyway, I am seriously consider to study a humanities degree which I am sure it will help me a great deal to further my career. My modest opinion. Regards
I think it may prove to be a mistake in the long term. That university may have easy entrance requirements, but their examinations are tough (but fair as Prof. Kennedy would say ). I suspect you may need a solid background, like that one a bachelor provides, to successfully write those final papers at the postgraduate level. I think in education there are not shortcuts, and even if what your friend says it is probably true, a good undergraduate education that exposes students to liberal arts and science is VERY important. I don't think he really meant it. Even if he did, she's pretty smart, so I wouldn't put it past her to succeed. But thank goodness there are shortcuts in education. CLEP let me knock off a year from my studies, for which I will be forever grateful. I somewhat agree about the need for general education as part of a Bachelor's degree program. I agree that studying various subjects can help provide useful perspective and enhance critical thinking, but I don't think it's a be all and end all requirement for that. When I was a young and helplessly dumb undergrad student, I didn’t understand why I did have to study sociology or history or humanities if my major was engineering. As an adult I realize those courses were crucial years later to the development of my professional career. Now I wish I had study more of those. In fact, in order to progress in my career, instead of studying an MBA that everyone has anyway, I am seriously consider to study a humanities degree which I am sure it will help me a great deal to further my career. A Master's in Humanities might help you improve your critical thinking, but would it help you get hired as much as a boring old MBA? -=Steve=-
Well Steve, I disagree. I think for most fields of study most persons who start from scratch and go directly to study post graduate education are heading for disaster. In subjects like engineering, sciences, philosophy, for instance, this is self evident. How would you understand complex advanced subjects without having been previously exposed to mathematics or physics or engineering courses? It is a chimera even though I think for a very limited amount of privileged students it may be very well possible. But those are a very select group, the ones who can be characterized as geniuses. Of course, in some fields, like business administration, it is possible to start at the postgraduate level, but I think one may still encounter major difficulties for he or she may lack appropriate reading and writing skills, or the emotional maturity or the discipline needed to succeed solving more complex problems. One needs to fail every once in a while at unraveling less complicated problems for every failure contains an important lesson that will be applied when solving truly complex problems. But I admit that for many self educated, adult students this may be possible. But if that occurs, it may not be because those students lack the necessary education but because they acquired it in a non conventional manner. I think that is what CLEPs are actually evaluating, and cannot be characterized really as a shortcut. Regarding that degree in humanities, I think it won’t help much to get a job. In fact, I am not planning to list it in my CV. Being an engineer, what I expect from it really is to help me climb the organizational ladder as it will improve my presentation and analytical and probably my social skills, important aspects that many technical people lack. In reality more than humanities, what I would like to study is a compendium of topics like advanced sociology, economy, politics, history, literature, etc. This would help me distinguish me from those of my colleagues who can barely write or say two words together without stumbling or fail to pu things in perspective within its proper context, something I find crucial in helping design a business strategy which is very difficult for most people anyway. I think I would profit from it more than I would if I decided to study an MBA or other professionally (as opposed to academically) oriented degrees.
Well Steve, I disagree. I think for most fields of study most persons who start from scratch and go directly to study post graduate education are heading for disaster. In subjects like engineering, sciences, philosophy, for instance, this is self evident. How would you understand complex advanced subjects without having been previously exposed to mathematics or physics or engineering courses? It is a chimera even though I think for a very limited amount of privileged students it may be very well possible. But those are a very select group, the ones who can be characterized as geniuses. So far we mostly agree -- anyone trying to enter a STEM postgraduate program without an undergraduate background or equivalent would face a serious challenge. Of course, in some fields, like business administration, it is possible to start at the postgraduate level, but I think one may still encounter major difficulties for he or she may lack appropriate reading and writing skills, or the emotional maturity or the discipline needed to succeed solving more complex problems. I think here's where we start to disagree. I think many non-STEM Master's degrees have become little more than auxilliary first degrees. You see people enter MBA and similar programs all the time with no business backgrounds whatsoever. There are even Information Systems Master's degrees for people without an existing background in the subject. I'm not saying this is a good thing, necessarily, just that it's the case. One needs to fail every once in a while at unraveling less complicated problems for every failure contains an important lesson that will be applied when solving truly complex problems. But I admit that for many self educated, adult students this may be possible. But if that occurs, it may not be because those students lack the necessary education but because they acquired it in a non conventional manner. I think that is what CLEPs are actually evaluating, and cannot be characterized really as a shortcut. I took seven of them, and I think some of them really do assess prior learning, and some of them are just a shortcut. Not that I'm sorry I took that route! Regarding that degree in humanities, I think it won’t help much to get a job. In fact, I am not planning to list it in my CV. Being an engineer, what I expect from it really is to help me climb the organizational ladder as it will improve my presentation and analytical and probably my social skills, important aspects that many technical people lack. That's cool -- I respect a humanities degree. In fact, if I were the hiring manager it might help you get the job for the very reason you say. In reality more than humanities, what I would like to study is a compendium of topics like advanced sociology, economy, politics, history, literature, etc. This would help me distinguish me from those of my colleagues who can barely write or say two words together without stumbling or fail to pu things in perspective within its proper context, something I find crucial in helping design a business strategy which is very difficult for most people anyway. I think I would profit from it more than I would if I decided to study an MBA or other professionally (as opposed to academically) oriented degrees. Sounds like you might want a Master of Liberal Studies degree. There are some online ones. Fort Hays State University has a lot of them, and you can split it where a lot of what you take is liberal studies and a lot of it is in a particular subject. They even have technical subjects, so you could put it on your resume. And they're well known for being reasonably priced. Just food for thought.... -=Steve=-
Thanks a lot, Steve. It looks truly interesting. I am looking for something similar to that, a liberal arts rather than a humanities degree. Regards.
Glad it helped -- I guess even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day. It's funny that you talk about the unsung usefulness of humanities and liberal studies. Because of my interest in the developing world, I considered applying for Sheffield Hallam's MA in Imperialism and Culture. I'd have had the same dilemma as you, though, in that it from a credentials perspective it wouldn't have helped me get where I want to go. -=Steve=-
