100 Reason Not To Go To Grad School AND PhD Reality Check

These numbers would, of course, also include Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) degrees in business, management, organizational leadership and related fields, as well as Doctor of Managment (D.M.) degrees and Doctor of Business Administration (D.B.A.) degrees.

 

Speak Japanese?

 

Of course the idea that DL doctorates have no credibility in academia is incorrect. I know personally dozens of K-12 teachers and administrators and college/university faculty and administrators who have received promotion and tenure after having completed a DL doctorate. The DL doctorate is not adviseable for the person looking to get that first tenure-track assistant professor position, but they are very popular (and widely accepted) for those already employed in academia. DL doctorates were designed for the mid-career working professional, not the brand-new inexperienced person wanting to become a college professor.

 

Very well said.

 

Quite true. I think when the author is talking about academia he means getting a PhD and then trying to get into the system. A DL for profit doctorate may work great for someone with a position already who wants to be called "Dr." or for someone in a Community College who wants the pay raise and wished to be called doctor. But then I don't think he was thinking of the Community College as academia (or your local high school). In the pecking order it is not there. I recall an article where a PhD grad was upset because she had a job in a Community College and felt the Universities would consider her "damaged goods" and she would never get into a university.

My thought is if you want a doctorate then get one. Don't bankrupt your family doing it. Find one that will meet your needs and that may be for profit RA, DETC, or South African. Life is short, if it is a life goal then do it.

 

I agree....

 

You may be right. Earning a second Masters may be a better option for many people. One of the reasons I say this is because we've all learned that there's a very high rate of non-completion of doctoral degrees. It seems to be that dissertation thing that people stumble over. Take away the dissertation and what you've got is a Masters. Some school's might award a terminal Masters if you drop out at that point but it seems that lots of people get nothing (except bills for their loan payments).

My thinking about the South African programs is that if the argument against doctoral programs is based on ROI then one solution would be to drastically reduce the "I" element. A South African PHD will still cost less than just about any other Masters degree. Would it be as useful? No one can really say for sure because each situation is so different. But, to borrow from another current thread, if someone was committed to earning a PhD in Literature (or History, or Philosophy,etc.) then it would make sense to go to a SA school.

 

Believe it or not, not everyone with a PhD wants to be called doctor or even cares. :no: I prefer students refer to me as Randell. I spoke to one student a few days ago and he asked, "How do you prefer I address you...sir, professor, doctor?" My response, "Randell is fine...I have even been known to answer to 'hey you'" I just can't play that superior/inferior game. I like teaching, the title is not what I am in it for.

Can I use this as my new signature line? This is so very true. My goal when I started back to school was to not owe a cent when I was done.

 

In Mark Fiegener's statistics, it appears that the 1.4% increase in research doctorates between 2007 and 2008 includes all fields, to include business doctorates (like DBAs). In his classification, a business doctorate is a research doctorate -- not a professional doctorate, although it does have a professional classification.

A professional doctorate isn't a research doctorate and doesn't require a dissertation, such as a JD or an MD. It is incorrect to classify DBAs, DMs or EdDs with JDs and MDs. In the last five years, it has become a popular misnomer to call business dissertations professional doctorates.

If the aggregate increase is only 1.4%, then it's not as big as some have purported it to be.

In your research, what is the aggregate annual increase of research doctorates, to include DBAs?

 

I think at one time the National Science Foundation (NSF) and the US DoE classified this way:
(they keep changing the classifications titles)

Professional Degrees: These were first professional degrees and included those with 'doctor' in the title that were not true doctorates. Eg MDiv, Doctor of Chiropractic, MD, JD

Professional Doctorates: This included Doctor of Music (DMus), Doctor of Business Administration (DBA), Doctor of Education (EdD) and Doctor of Ministry (DMin)....etc. These required a Masters degree for entry.

Research Doctorate: PhD and whatever else they threw in (cannot recall)

Yes, even though MD and JD are prestigious degrees, they are not true doctorates (even in the sense that DBA's and DMin's are).

 

I am sure that you are right--the author was thinking about university assistant professor positions. Of course, this was part of the weakness of the article, since K-12 schools and community colleges are, most definitely, part of "academia."

I remember the article about "damaged goods" in the Chronicle of Higher Education. Of course, thousands (including me) have successfully made the transition from community college to university. Early in my career, I spent seven years as a faculty member/coordinator of educational technology at a community college. The remaining 14 years have been at public and private universities (ad a small stint at a K-12 school).

The other thing left out in the article is that DL doctorates are quite popular for administrative positions in K-12, community college and higher ed.

 

You are correct. The D.B.A. is classified as a research doctorate, but it is also considered to be a professional doctorate. There is a difference between a "first professional degree" (M.D., J.D., etc.) and a "professional doctorate." The classification "professional doctorate" is not one of the U.S. Dept. of Ed./NSF degree classifications (see next post).

 

You are really close. The U.S. Dept. of Ed and the NSF have, indeed, published a classification system for degrees. However the "professional doctorate" degree is not included, since the professional doctorate, by and large, was just a way to allow individual schools/colleges within a university (e.g. business, education) to offer their own doctorates. The Ed.D. and D.B.A. were but invented at Harvard due to the fact that Harvard Corp. allows Ph.D.s to be awarded only by the College of Arts and Sciences, so any doctorate offered by one of the other graduate schools must have a different name than the Ph.D. These are the classifications at the graduate level. You can find them at the U.S. Dept. of Ed. Structure of U.S. Education site http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ous/international/usnei/us/edlite-structure-us.html.

Unfortunately, the unofficial "professional doctorate" title is used by accrediting bodies (such as DETC, which mixes up first professional, intermediate and research doctorates into a single "professional doctorate" category), CHEA and even the U.S. DoE itself, which has given the DETC the authorization to award professional doctorates when it does not even officially recognize that classification. If we took things to their (il)logical conclusion, we would have a research doctorate category with only one degree: the Ph.D.

First Professional Degrees

Doctor of Chiropractic (D.C. or D.C.M.)​

Doctor of Dental Science (D.D.S.) or Doctor of Dental Medicine (D.M.D.)​

Doctor of Jurisprudence or Juris Doctor (J.D.)​

Doctor of Medicine (M.D.)​

Doctor of Optometry (O.D.)​

Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine/Osteopathy (D.O.)​

Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.)​

Doctor of Podiatric Medicine/Podiatry (D.P.M., D.P., or Pod.D.)​

Master of Divinity (M.Div.), Master of Hebrew Letters (M.H.L.) or Rabbinical Ordination (Rav)​

[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Veterinary Medicine (D.V.M.).[/FONT]

Intermediate (6 yr) Graduate Degrees

[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Ministry (D.Min.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Psychology (Psy.D/D.Psy.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Education Specialist (Ed.S./Sp.Ed.)[/FONT]

Research Doctorates

[FONT=&quot]NOTE: This is the list of frequently awarded research doctorate degree titles accepted by the National Science Foundation (NSF) as representing degrees equivalent in content and level to the Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) degree.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Arts (D.A.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Business Administration (D.B.A.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Church Music (D.C.M.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Canon Law (J.C.D./D.C.L.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Design (D.Des.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Education (Ed.D.)[/FONT]

Doctor of Engineering (D.Eng./D.E.Sc./D.E.S.)​

[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Fine Arts (D.F.A.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Hebrew Letters (D.H.L.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Industrial Technology (D.I.T.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Juridical Science (J.S.D./S.J.D.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Music (D.M.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Musical/Music Arts (D.M.A.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Music Education (D.M.E.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Modern Languages (D.M.L.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Nursing Science (D.N.Sc.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Public Administration (D.P.A.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Physical Education (D.P.E.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Public Health (D.P.H.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Sacred Theology (S.T.D.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Science (D.Sc./Sc.D.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Social Work (D.S.W.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Doctor of Theology (Th.D.)[/FONT]

 

yeah it seems alot of people go into masters programs because when they get their bachelors they dont want to work and moma and dada give them money so they figure well let me just continue living this life, my gf also pays for her own stuff so i can just continue.. LOL. So they continue on living with mama and dada and have no real world work experience and get their masters. Anyone else seen this?

 

This is the new(er) list. There was one from a few years ago with the categories I mentioned and no intermediate category. I smiled when you mentioned that these categories above are not universally used since I saw the same thing with how National Accreditation is defined and the difference between US DoE and CHEA. Rather confusing.

PS I like the DIT degree. Instead of, "Are you a PhD?", "Why no, I am a DIT".

 

Considering we are in similar fields, would you mind giving a bit more detail? My own consideration has been to either pursue a grad cert to complement my masters or proceed to a doctorate. Most of the opinions I received (from you and others) made me realize it made more sense to seek a grad cert, however I haven't discounted the doctorate option yet.

What kind of doors did just being in the program open up? If it's too personal I understand, but I was just curious.

 

You make a very good point. It is just another evidence of the confusing and inconsitent nature of degrees in this country. The MDiv seems to have a lot more in common with other first profession degrees (nearly all of which now use the title "doctor of...") than it does with other masters degrees. If the Doctor of Divinity degree did not already exist, perhaps the MDiv would have taken that title.

There may be exceptions, but most DMin degrees that I have seen require as many post-masters units as en Ed.S. degree and are not equal to the research-based Th.D. and Ph.D. degrees in religion.

Had the MDiv followed the pattern of the other first professional degrees, it would have been called a "doctor of..." (like a J.D.) and the DMin might have been a masters degree in ministry (like the LL.M.). So someone would get a B.A., then a DDiv, then an MMin.

It's too late for that, however.

 

I got a laugh out of this one:
Doctor of Sacred Theology (S.T.D.)

 

I like this quote from number 56:



"If Dante had been familiar with graduate school, he probably would have added a level of Hell to his Inferno".

Abner