England: Practice law without a law degree!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Frankie, Nov 18, 2003.

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  1. Frankie

    Frankie member

    Fascinating! it is actually possible to qualify for the bar without a law degree and in some instances without a degree at all!

    Map of Routes to Qualification

    The tube map shows the three main routes by which people can qualify as a solicitor. If you click on a link or on a line you will be given more information about stage of qualification.


    [​IMG]

    -The Law Society

    http://www.lawsoc.org.uk/
     
  2. dave750gixer

    dave750gixer New Member

    Many professions in the UK work this way. From the map provided it is the knowledge and skills of the candiddate that are important and are assessed by the professional body concerned. Whether or not they have a degree is irrelevant.

    I am a chemist and the Royal Society of Chemistry has had its own exams equivalent to a degree (GRSC Part I) and an honours degree (GRSC Part II) for many years. It is possible to join the RSC as a professsional member by other educational and experiential routes as long as you can demonstrate the required knowlede and skills.

    I see no problem with this. I think the US system places too much importance on the degree.

    Some professions insist on a relevant degree and AFAIK it is not possible to practice medicine this way. It is membership of the professional governing body which is again important but the governing body for doctors specify that you must have a medical degreee prior to joining. They do not administer their own examinations at undergraduate level. A matter of preference for them I would assume. (Not being a medical doctor or dentist etc I could be wrong about this though)
     
  3. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    In Canada, professional bodies regulate admissions to the professions.

    I think it is technically possible to become an engineer or architect without a degree. I think you need about ten years relevant experience and to pass exceedingly difficult exams. It rarely evers happens.

    Relevant experience does not mean drafting for 10 years and then becoming an architect.
     
  4. Frankie

    Frankie member

    I agree. I do not doubt that a Fellow of the ILEX Institute with 7 years of legal experience is just as qualified to take the exams to become a lawyer as an LL.B graduate.
     
  5. Peter French

    Peter French member

    Yes ...

    This is common in Commonwealth Countries who have followed the UK principle.

    Universities were very restricted in what they offered and in the 1960's, universities were few and far between in Australia. Hence the readiness to accept the concept that John Bear originally introduced as to earning degrees non tradtionally. You will find plenty of degree holders out here with degrees from CPU, Pacific Western, California Coast etc which John recommended in those days.

    Teachers, for example, did not train at university but at a teachers training college. In common with many others in the 1960's, from the age of 16, I did the professional bodies examinations in Engineering and Accountancy whilst working - a combination of professional education and apprenticeship. The educational institutions function was to prepare me for these examinations, and as for comparison purposes, many graduates today would never pass these exams. I then took out the necessary Government practising registrations.

    So you will find many in my age group, I am 59, who do not possess a first degree. Our professional fellowships and duly assessed practical experience then grant us entry into formal post graduate degree programs.

    In reality none really care about my degrees, but they do look at what professional qualifications [graded memberships and fellowships] I hold. The true accreditation therefore really rests with the professional bodies as THEY control treh professions.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2003
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    There are several, seven I think, U.S. states that allow a Bar applicant to qualify without having a law degree. I am reasonably familiar with two; California, which requires two years of post-secondary non-legal education followed by four years of structured study while working in a law office or judge's chambers, and Washington State, whose Bar Association supervises a four year clerkship study program. In the latter case, the applicant must have an accredited bachelor's degree before commencing his law study.
    There are, I believe, some states that allow non degreed technical people to take the examinations for engineering licenses, as well.
     
  7. ashton

    ashton New Member

    Engineering license without degree

    Some states in the US do indeed allow a person with substantial high-level experinece (in the neighborhood of 12 years) to obtain an engineering license without a degree. Most candidates, with or without degrees, are required to take two difficult exams. They were the toughest exams I ever took; I've heard that PhD qualifying exams are more difficult, but I never took one of those.

    For a summary of the requirements of the several states, see http://www.ncees.org/licensure/licensing_requirements/

    Gerry Ashton PE (Vermont), MS Electrical Engineering (Syracuse)
     
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    It looks to me like the non-degree route is no bed of roses, however. It generally takes longer, has more restrictions on mobility, and relies much more heavily on self discipline than the degree route...

    It should, in general, be cheaper, however, especially when you consider the opportunity costs associated with pursuing a degree full time.
     

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