Pigeons and SRU

Now listen to this load of crap :

SRU Administration is saying that George Gollin's story about SRU's high school exams and pigeons is incorrect because the questions on the exam are each weighted differently. Therefore, there is no way that he knew his exact score and therefore is story is invalid.

This information about differential weighting was recently added to the SRU main website (they didn't even bother to use the same font). However, some of their mirror websites have no mention of this.

Obviously, George was right and SRU is backpeddling, albeit feebly.

 

I can't find SRU's reply. Could someone please supply the URL -- or, even better, paste the text here before it disappears?

I like the misspelling. Cyclists back-pedal; dealers in questionable goods back-peddle.

 

analyzing the SRU exam question weights

This is dry, but please try to bear with it-- I like numbers and it was fun working up the analysis.

I have something quantitative to add to the discussion about weighting of questions on the Branford Academy high school/AA equivalency exam.

(See http://saintregis.edu.lr/high_school.htm for the SRU statement about weighting of questions. On their page is the following:

"Test Online for your High School Diploma & Associate Degree
The Evaluation for the High School Diploma by Exam™ Program is FREE and is delivered online. It consists of a series of multiple-choice exams that will measure your knowledge for equivalency to the completion requirements of a traditional high school, plus 2 years of college level knowledge. However, equal weight is not given to each question. Certain questions may be given more weight than others. Because our exams and processes are proprietary we do not give out lists of questions or answer keys under any circumstances. Subjects include reading and writing skills, humanities, mathematics, science, arts and technology at the high school grad and college prep level.")

The third time I worked the exam was through the "Interfaith Association of Ministries" site at http://www.interfaithedu.org/. As before, I kept track of my answers to the test questions, submitting 14 right, and 86 wrong answers. (I had previously submitted the test through Saint Regis with 21 right and 79 wrong.) I made sure that all of the wrong answers on the Saint Regis test were also submitted as wrong answers to IAM. The seven additional wrong answers on the IAM test were for questions 27, 37, 40, 45, 49, 53, and 54.

A few hours after learning that my "test score was too low to be awarded the Branford Academy Preparatory High School Diploma," I resubmitted the exam with all questions answered correctly.

In response to my submission of a perfect exam so soon after submission of an exam with only 14% of the answers right, I received email stating "It appears that you have scored 100% on the Branford Academy online exam. However, this was your second attempt, with your first score being 14%."

Apparently, those 14 question I had answered properly each carried an average weight of 1 point.

Since Saint Regis found my 21-correct-answer score equivalent to a high school diploma with a 2.9 GPA (and an AA degree with a 2.8 GPA), it is reasonable to assume that those extra seven right answers I had given them would have raised my score from a 14% to something at least in a B-ish range. (After all, the test claims to determine academic achievement at the level of two years of college.)

For argument's sake, let's say that an 80% might be the lowest possible grade one can imagine justifying the award of an AA degree. That would require Saint Regis to boost my score from the IAM 14% score by about 66 points in response to the 7 extra correct answers.

In short, EACH of those particular seven questions (27, 37, 40, 45, 49, 53, and 54) would need to carry an average worth of nearly NINE points instead of the naive one-point-per-question weight.

In addition, the 93 other questions (all the test questions with the exception of 27, 37, 40, 45, 49, 53, and 54) would only be able to carry 34 points, since a perfect test receives a 100% score, and the seven particular questions (27, 37, 40, 45, 49, 53, and 54) apparently carry a total weight of about 66 points.

So a grading/weighting scheme that is consistent with the data (assuming an 80% on the test maps into an AA with a B- average) is this:

** Value of those seven questions in my list: ~9 points each
** Value of all other questions: ~1/3 point each.

In short, a weighting scheme that is in agreement with the data regards some questions as 27 times more difficult as other questions.

What are the flaws in my reasoning? Well, one is the sensible assumption that it takes at minimum 80% on a simple multiple choice test to prove that one merits an AA degree. Another is the assumption that there is a monotonic relationship (note that I said "monotonic," not "monetary") between test performance and the awarding of a degree.

George

 

Oh, the web of lies.

See collegehints.com discussion board and in particular the threads :

how come pigeons are smart enough to get saint regis degrees
pigeons and sru

 

Tsk, tsk, Piratesmac. Aren't you ashamed of yourself, trampling on the beautiful hothouse flower of St Regis with such boorish crudity? Don't you know that m*ll is a f**r letter w*rd? Let alone ****. As the pale scent of Eau de Rooinek wafts through the gentle breeze, I do hope that you will elevate your consciousness to pure sublimity.

"I love you, you love me, we're a happy..." (singing, limpidly).

 

maybe a little less boring this time

Hi again/Len,

OK, no more statistics for the moment.

I took a look at the www.collegehints.com/boards/ site.

Len's teasing me, I see! ("You'd think a physics professor would be a little smarter that this!") Umm... I don't think he really means it, though, since he decribes my "high school by exam" étude as "a clever move to try and discredit SRU, and it failed once again."

Bob is skeptical: "I might add that I have no proof that what allegedly occurred with Dr. Golling's experiment in the high school arena in fact occurred as it was reported on degreeinfo's public all be it hostile forum. My understanding, is that it did not, as explained to me by people who should know. The people involved in that department are the ones you might speak to, as Len suggests." (I assume he meant "Gollin" and not "Golling.")

Actually, Len is skeptical too: "...the facts are that George Gollin's "account" of taking the high school exam was either an outright lie, or another of his false assumptions."

So the basic tenor of the posts is that I'm a liar, or that I'm kind of dumb, or both. Now that's not very nice, and not at all accurate.

Len, as I recall, you're "Professor Dr. Leonard van der Walt" of Saint Regis University. Bob, given your background in music, are you "Professor Dr. Robert S. Stefaniak," also of Saint Regis? If so, hello there, it's good to meet you.

Since there are a couple of SRU faculty who might be reading this, I'd like to ask you a question about the SRU curriculum. I noticed that the SRU degree_programs.htm page has a link titled "Course Catalog" to a site with contact address in Kamiah Idaho. As I recall, that's federal land. Does this mean that Idaho residents are not allowed to get degrees from SRU? (This is the case for a couple of places using PO boxes in Kamiah: their programs are not available to Idaho residents.)

g'night,
George

 

According to our good friend "Len" I have already attacked him on CollegeHints.Com using something other than my usual handle. This is a flat out lie..... I just signed up for their for about 20 minutes ago..... some people. Oh, Piratemac, what tree are we playing in? I want to make sure I get in the right one.

 

Personally, I can’t see what the brouhaha is all about. What’s wrong with St. Regis University granting degrees to pigeons? Aren’t pigeons their primary target market?

 

Their primary and only market.

 

I disagree. I believe they also appeal to weasels and snakes.

Pigeons, weasels and snakes… Oh my!

 

See, now you've gone and done it again. How can we have a factual discussion with all this going on?

Actually, this is the real reason people go to another forum - the jokes!

 

Wessel: Actually, this is the real reason people go to another forum - the jokes!

Bear: Or possibly the real reason is people who offer their personal opinions as if they were facts. Do you have any evidence whatsoever to support your claim, Mr. Wessel? Seems to me the number of members, posts, and threads keeps growing and growing and growing. Whether this is because of or in spite of or unrelated to the jokes, neither you nor anyone else can know.






A young man hired by a supermarket reported for his first day of work. The manager greeted him with a warm handshake and a smile, gave him a broom and said, "Your first job will be to sweep out the store."
"But I'm a college graduate," the young man replied indignantly. "I have an on-line degree from St. Regis University."
"Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know that," said the manager. "Here, give me the broom - I'll show you how!"

 

LOL That was a good one, I'll have to remember that one.

 

Well, if we're gonna tell jokes....

What happens to a St. Regis shill when he takes Viagra?

He grows taller.

 

Did you read about the little boy who was born without an eyelid?


A St. Regis MD decided that he could take some skin from the boys penis, and make the boy an eyelid.



The boy is doing fine now, he is just a little cock eyed.

 

And, when he gets aroused one eye opens real wide!

 

Twisted, yet brilliant. I like it.

 

"how come pigeons are smart enough to get Saint Regis degrees?" has been hidden

Hi folks,

It seems that collegehints.com has hidden that thread titled "how come pigeons are smart enough to get Saint Regis degrees?"

It can be found using one of the search features of the board (look for the user "galanga") but not one of the others (a keyword search for "pigeons"). The thread used to live here:

CollegeHints.com > Main Category > Specific Online Schools or Colleges and Their Representative Programs > St. Regis University Online > how come pigeons are smart enough to get Saint Regis degrees?

I can't seem to find the "Specific Online Schools..." category at the moment.

George

 

Gollin's web site - down...

George Gollin's web site about CHEA unapproved programs is gone - http://web.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/nonCHEA/. Apparently SRU is pursuing some legal action against this? Does anyone know anything more about this, or is willing to talk about it on this public forum?

I've seen some of Dr. Gollin's other work, which is still available. It is compelling. I've also read his work on the nonCHEA research, which mentioned SRU a great deal. It was also compelling, and did not in any way seem to me to be something that could be "shut down" by someone. What has happened to academic freedom in our country?

Commentary appreciated. Oh and yes - Go Dr. George! (You're from Illinois and probably a Bears fan, but I'll excuse that - )

 

Well, Carl, it figures. The poor dears couldn't cope with a little earthy language from me, so how could they cope with a little truth from George?