Nova Southeastern University

In the U.S. I would disagree. A NSU credential would be better than most foreign credentials.

I also agree with a previous post on the need for NSU to market more mainstream because DL is also becoming more mainstream. That marketing should also begin with its graduates. I will stand behind my NSU doctorate as it is an earned fully accredited credential.

NSU has stood the test of time and went through some hard times in the past. It has persevered. I have never had to defend my NSU degree and it has enhanced my career considerably. Since graduating from NSU I have taught in an adjunct capacity for 5 RA instutitions, have been offered fulltime academic positions, and still teach. I choose to stay in industry fulltime and teach part-time because I like it.

Because NSU provides a unique blend of combining your work with academic life it does train one to operate as a leader in industry. There are not a lot of doctorate programs that do this as most are focused on preparing for a career in academia.

It is important to put DL progams into perspective. Typically they are not Ivy League but most people do not go to Ivy League institutions when compared to the rest of academia. I do find it interesting that we, as a DL discussion community, are always thrilled about the prospect of earning degrees through DL, finding new programs, and discussing the merits of each. We should be doing the utmost to support the good DL programs, question the unaccredited schools, and "put-away" the sham schools.

My personal opinion in this regard pertaining to NSU is that it institued DL related graduate programs at a time when traditional schools gave it a big black eye. Because there were few schools in this arena at the time NSU became a punching bag. Now that there are many DL schools we still read bad press on DL but more in a general sense of DL as opposed to particular schools. As a DL supporter, I for one believe that as a community we need to work hard to remove the stigma of DL. As such, NSU and other good DL programs will be at the top of my list. I also think that we all want to see more of the traditional schools offer higher level degrees through DL so they can be earned, we can claim this credential, and do not have to face any questioning that the degree was earned through DL. If this is what we really want then I believe we may be deceiving ourselves.

Dr. Bear's survey results of the registrar's on DETC and DL earned degrees was very telling. There is still some stigma attached to DL but I for one refuse to be ashamed by it. I will proudly state that I have all of my degrees earned through DL, they are all regionally accredited, and they were all earned. I am proud of each one and they have benefitted me considerably in their own way.

John



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John R. Wetsch, Ph.D.
B.S. '84 Excelsior College (USNY/Regents)
M.A. '89 Antioch University, The McGregor School
Ph.D. '94 Nova Southeastern University

 

I also agree with a previous post on the need for NSU to market more mainstream because DL is also becoming more mainstream. That marketing should also begin with its graduates.

-I totally agree with your point of view. Unless good schools such as NSU can enhance their profiles as high quality instutions in the public's eye, they will begin to struggle as the "big name" traditional schools move quickly into DL.

Nova has the ability to promote itself nationally as a quality school based on its size, facilities, and technical advantages. When they emphasize the relative ease or quickness of a degree, they shoot themselves in the foot.

 

Excellent point. Ease and quickness should be eliminated. Once in the program students soon realize that the degree is not easy or quick. NSU is more liberal in admissions than other schools and once in the door students learn to either sink or swim. When I was a student I remember that the department was concerned about its doctoral retention rate.

John

 

There is a lot of truth in the previous statement. I started my Ed.S. degree with Nova because I thought I would be able to complete two courses a term and finish the degree within one year. After the first term, I dropped down to one course and it will have taken me two years to complete it. I am really glad I had the option to do one course at a time and not have to follow a locked-step program.

T. Nichols

 

I agree with many of the statements above. Unfortunately many people enter NSU to this very day with the impression that the degree will be "easy". They then find out, as the rest of us did, that it is not. My program (Child and Youth Studies) required about a paper a month for the three year duration. In addition, two practicums were required. (The "practicums" are now more appropriately called "applied dissertations") That made the program more research orientated that many traditional programs!

Again, Nova really should do something about improving its image. In certain ways, why shouldn't academia look-down upon a doctorate program (such as Child and Youth Studies) that does not (on paper) require a dissertation or even a "doctorate project?" The term "practicum" made a lot of sense in the context of the CYS program, but it does not communicate accurately the degree of scholarship required to earn the degree. Changing the name of the practicum to applied dissertation is not only more accurate, but enhances the image of the degree.

Regards,

Jeffrey

 

For someone living outside the US you may have a point. But for folks in the US, having a foreign degree invites the questions - "Why did you leave the U.S. for study? How long did you live outside the US?" When the answer is "I didn't" I'm sure a new round of questions can come up.

Also, there is certainly a difference between research oriented programs and NSU's DBA program. In my case I had about 75 residential days in classes (42 credit hours) with peers along with the preparation of a dissertation (18 credits). I won't argue that this is superior - only different than the research oriented approach.

Thanks - Andy

 

The suggestion that a doctorate from a top-tier business school in the UK is less valuable than a doctorate from a 4th tier school in the US is simply laughable.

If you search the top Universities in the US you will find a surprising representation of foreign doctorates, many from institutions as esteemed as the UofG or Henley.

As well, a doctorate from Harvard will do you better in the UK over one from some 4th tier British polytechnic.

That DL degrees are discounted in the US is generally true, that foreign degrees are discounted in the US is generally a myth.

 

"Why did you leave the U.S. for study?"... because I was able to complete a doctorate from a world class british university vs completing a doctorate from an obscure 4th tier US school...

I lived outside the US for the same amount of time I lived in Florida.

Questions will always be asked (so why didn't you go to Harvard?). The issue is the quality and rationale behind your answers. For someone to say that they chose a 4th tier US school over one a world-class british one because it is American may win points on the patriotic scale but definetly raises questions of judgement.

 

Hmmm, maybe differences in approaches by departments. My final dissertation was clearly labeled a dissertation. With a dissertation proposal phase prior to that. For each course I had there was also one major practicum associated with it in addition to the coursework. I found the practicums very beneficial as the research required for them provided a lot of research that fed into the dissertation.

John

 

I really do not think anyone will argue top-tier UK versus lower tier U.S. The problem is typically in the U.S. one doesn't immediately identify with a top-tier UK program. Oxford or Cambridge might me the exception. Likewise, there are foreign credentials outside of the UK and unless their are some global comparisons the U.S. degree seeker is typically better off getting a U.S. degree.

If someone wants to get a teaching position at Harvard then the person should be pursuing an Ivy League or similar credential. But the majority of the world and the jobs sought by degree seekers does not center around seeking to work at an Ivy League school. Hence, top-tier is not always necessary and oftentimes it is cost prohibitive. Do we need\want to pursue the $90K Duke MBA or the $10K - $15K local university MBA?

What one must do is ask themselves why they want to get the degree and what will it be uased for?

John

 

1) Marketing a top foreign credential which is relatively unknown within the US is not that difficult. Which is better, for no one to be aware that I attended a world-class school or everyone to be aware I attended a fourth tier one? Also, you may be surprised, I know I have been, regarding the level of recognition of foreign credentials within "big" business.

True, "top-tier" is not always necessary. However, if a legitimate, 4-tier education will meet your needs I would recommend Charles Sturt over NSU. The education will be as good, the credential as valuable but the cost will be much less.

I don't have anything against NSU but I generally think that there are alternatives which are more "prestigious" or offer better value for money.

 

I would agree as long as a student has enough information to understand the level of prestige of a degree offered by a foreign school and its subsequent marketability in academia, big business, etc. I think a strong knowledge of the prestige of most foreign schools is rare -- both from the perception of students who perceive U.S. schools as foreign schools and vice versa. With increased globalization this may change but I do not see it in the near term. In my case I would know virtually nothing about what Charles Sturt means to a global academy and would therefore choose something closer to home. (I am assuming you are talking strictly DL in this context as NSU also has its residential programs, such as law and medicine, and foreign programs would probably not even be considered by the majority of students in these areas.)

John

 

...I don't have anything against NSU but I generally think that there are alternatives which are more "prestigious" or offer better value for money.

Value for the money is really what this is all about. Does NSU deliver what its students hope for at a reasonable cost? Now that there are more and more options, can they continue to market themselves as they have for 30 years?

 

Hi John,

I'm curious about your entry requirements into the NSU PhD program. I recall that your MA degree from Antioch was not in information systems yet you were accepted into the PhD in information systems program at NSU. Did you have to complete some additional information technology and related coursework prior to formal entry or were your MA credentials enough? Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Bob

 

I am not Dr. Wetsch but the answer to your question is simple. I originally applied for admission to Ph.D. in Computer Science with M.S. in Management Information Systems and 3.88 GPA. The Nova School of Computer and Information Sciences accepted me conditionally and insisted that I must take six bridge courses before the condition will be removed. These courses are all masters (600 level) courses. The bridge courses do not count as doctoral courses. In conclusion, I believe that Dr. Wetsch had to take some bridge courses before he was accepted unconditionally at Nova.

Ike Okonkwo

 

It's important to understand the specific criteria used by U.S. News. The reputational survey results come from peers. But the statistical information comes from data supplied by the schools themselves.

We can quarrel with the weight that U.S. News assigns the various criteria in arriving at a ranking or tier placement. Nevertheless, it's a fairly standard indicator of *perceived* quality, i.e., what do other academics think of you? [reputational survey], and how selective is the institution in picking its students? [stats].

Furthermore, the U.S. News rankings of institutions overall that are released every fall are assessments of undergraduate programs. The rankings of grad programs that are released every spring cover specific programs (business, medicine, law, education, etc.)

I think there is a bias against distance learning among garden variety academics. But I don't know if that's necessarily what has been holding back Nova in the U.S. News rankings. Its flexible admissions policies, its relative youth, its multitude of delivery options (evening & commuter institutions suffer under U.S. News as well) all conspire against it when it comes to U.S. News.

 

I am in total agreement. This analysis is more like an accurate summary of what have said in this thread. One point to note is that Nova's national image is not the same with its image in the state of Florida. Nova has a better image in Florida than in other states. Alberto Lacaye, who I think, lives in south Florida can attest to this.

Ike Okonkwo

 

I think globalization (in a big business context) is already significant and is affecting this perception... most large multinationals tend to resemble a small united nations. Although I would generally not be concerned with legitimate foreign credentials, this is especially so within a business context.

You may not know much about Charles Sturt... but should you? If you are in need of a legitimate distance learning doctorate and have limited financial resources, maybe you should.

As for as considering foreign programs for law, many do. There is a company in New York which assists students in the US in becoming a lawyer via the DL law degree from the University of London.

 

I agree that you probably won't have much difficulty with a good foreign degree in business. However, most business related jobs I know of do not require more than an MBA. MBA programs, from Regionally Accredited schools, are plentious in the U.S. and admission can be gained easily(in the case of Amberton one can be had for a fairly reasonable price, too). These schools are all somewhat flexible. Pesonally, I cannot see having to go foreign if one needs an MBA.

If you are particularly thinking about the doctorate then that's another story. I cannot think of any job in IT or business that requires a doctorate. One might need a doctorate if the goal is to teach at university or college. Still, I have taught at a RA university with just an MBA.

Adjuncts are a dime a dozen. If the goal is to switch careers and become a professor then I would think it might be more difficult to work with a foreign credential. (I don't that for sure but I have met a few adjuncts with foreign credentials trying to get on regular staff at school. It's been trying for them to say the least).

From my experience, it seems more of a "who ya know" type of thing that gets you further than adjunct status. I have a friend who only has a BS degree and he made it to that status after teaching in the adjunct mode for 4 years. It did not hurt that, while he was a VP for an in-town company, he gave the Dean's son a job.

Lewchuk, are you a Charles Sturt student, CS grad,or looking for a particular program yourself.

Bing

 

Actually, there are several reasons why a person would go foreign for an MBA.

Flexibility: Assuming a requirement of little or no residency eliminates many opportunities here and abround.

Quality: Currently DL MBA programs in the US that have very limited or no residency are generally from schools "lower" on the food chain. Conversely in the UK there are "top-tier" schools that offer MBAs with little or no residency.

Cost: The cost of the UK programs are generally much less than equal programs in the US.

That is probably why the largest DL MBA program in the US is British... the combination of flexibility, quality and cost that the US schools have yet to compete with.

I have no immediate plans to study through CS although I have done research into several programs there. It offers tremendous opportunities for American DLs... high Australian standards with worldwide recognition... a multitude of programs in various fields from undergrad through to doctorate with most accessable via DL to American students... the school is reasonably priced but once you convert Aussy buck to USD it is a steal.