Kennedy Western University - How would you evaluate?

James

Perhaps you don't realize it but you are using yet another intellectual fallacy. To say you have be for and recommend/use DETC schools or you are against them is the classical either/or fallacy. A person can certainly recognize that DETC schools have very limited utility/value and yet not be "RA or no way".

Some links that might help you:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=either+or+fallacy&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Regular/bishop73.htm

 

With respect to the fact that these are an alternative to RA, not to be considered better than RA in any way.

I find these to be excellent picks for their different categories and I concur with your recommendations.

 

And here I go. For the most part, I think state approved schools are extremely poor choices for the following reasons:

1. The Money Argument: There are comparably priced RA or DETC schools. In some cases, even less expensive.

2. Academic quality: There is no evidence that state-approved schools have equaled the quality of even the lowest RA schools. I would be happy to read any research that suggests otherwise.

3. Approved by California: While not a rubber stamp process, it is nowhere near what occurs with any of the legitimate accrediting organizations (RA, DETC, etc.). These are the same folks that approve beauty schools.

4. Working adult: Most distance learning programs cater to this exact same group in this exact same (or better) manner.

5. Employability: While there is no evidence that supports their use in either academia or business, there is research that shows their limited value as an educational credential.

They can't even get State of California organizations to uniformly accept what they themselves approve.

With the exceptions of the schools usually suggested (NTPS, etc.), I have yet to be convinced that you can't get what a California-approved school provides in some accredited (RA, DETC) manner.

I should mention that, as a general rule, I couldn't care less about state-approved schools. I rarely follow the many threads because I find them of little interest (and because it is the same argument again and again).



Tom Nixon

 

You're kidding, right? If you are serious, go back and re-read what I posted.

I think that I made it clear which schools I like and why I like them.

Whether or not I would recommend any of them to anyone else would depend on what that person's interests and needs were. Each of the schools I named are rather specialized and are most suitable for a particular sub-set of students.

On this board I've suggested that people check out American Military University and Academy of Art College. I'd suggest most of the others as well, if the situation warranted it.

That's nice.

Have you ever posted anything to justify the credibility of your choices? Have you ever made any attempt to convince the rest of us that your choices are worthy of our consideration?

Why do you like CCU? If you are willing to recommend it, presumably you have reasons why other people might want to consider it. So, what are they? If people are skeptical about it, what would you tell them to bring them around to your way of thinking?

How would you go about making a persuasive case for a non-RA school?

 

"AND" do you believe that it should be possible for people to get on here and post about CCU-Pacific Western-SCUPS and why they chose those schools or schools like them without having the gang screaming shill-disingenuous-ignorant-who are you-why are you here? Is this protected company turf that may be protected using any means necessary? Is [RA/DL ONLY] an excuse for the driving away of almost all but a few of the hardiest people with positive views of all types of education, and not an RA only view??? Look at how the small group of 6-8 people band together and attack all counter views with malice, attack and anger and tell me that has to do with education or how that improves degreeinfo??? This forum is a private business that uses advertising for its support. Free speech does not exist here, but only is tolerated to a point. RA fans are permitted to attack in groups/individually or use profanity as it suits them. They feel free to do this because they know this behavior will be looked at with a wink and a nod. This forum represents a commercial business that behaves the way of all businesses, support your friends and destroy the competition. Anyone reading these posts should realize they are seeing information on a for profit business forum and that it presents information in a small distorted way, and is not of a subject commonly known about or understood by most people. Other for profit forums about DL also do the same distorted, narrow view of DL that they wish to present. One narrow view is as distorted as the other. There is no single forum on DL that presents an open balanced picture of the possibilities and methods available to prospective students. You don't join in the attacks and your views are more balanced and fair. Your more open attitude is not the common way of offering opposition here. It is refreshing, congratulations.

 

Conspiracy!

Now I get it! It was Degreeinfo/Chip who was on the grassy knoll in Dallas! Chip is just setting back letting all those big RA checks come in!

Of course there are quite a few posts from people presenting a non-RA stance. So there goes that no free discussion idea out the window. I know, maybe they really are written well with strong arguments but Chip comes back and rewrites them so they make little sense?

Most people here see RA as typically a better choice than state approved or unaccredited schools so that must be evidence of a conspiracy. Of course, RA is the US standard so it is logical that it usually is the better choice.

Dang! Just when I get it all figured out, the facts start coming in!

 

I would recognize this schools as legitimate, but will unlikely recommend or use them. Well, maybe AMU for their homeland security program, or with HUGE reservations CCU for someone wishing to be a psychologist in CA (but they are dropping these programs, right?). There are so many better choices.

 

CCU doctorates have been dropped.

While I recognize the desirability of accreditation for most people, unaccredited programs have utility for many people.

I am over 50 years old and am not looking for new conquests. I would not spend $ 20,000 for a doctorate which for me will have no practical application. I am spending less than the cost of a cheap MBA and obtaining a MBA and a DBA.

CCU states that the average age of applicants is 45 years old. The program is a real academic program, just more consumer friendly.

 

I've been a member for a long time, and seem to be leading the league in posts. So I've got something to say:

1. There is no "one voice" on this board.

2. Tom got it right.

3. Most people, like Tom, couldn't care less about California-approved schools, except when their utility and quality are misrepresented. (Vocifierously and repeatedly, I might add.)

4. This board is wide open. No one, except for those who violate the TOS, is/are prevented from airing whatever views he/she/they please. If there is an imbalance, it is because the issue has one side with considerably more weight than the other.

5. Don't expect equality in an unequal issue. All the research--and a great number of anecdotes--shows that California-approved DL schools are inferior to accredited schools, as are the degrees they issue. Complaining about those who point that out doesn't change it. As Tom said, I'd love to read the research that shows otherwise.

6. Again with the research, you have two recent inputs that bear directly on this issue, as well as access to their authors. If you cannot refute their findings under those circumstances, perhaps it is your arguments that are weak.

7. How can you possibly say "free speech does not exist here, but only is tolerated to a point."? If your definition of tolerance is that you (or anyone else) are able to offer up your points of view without comment, then you're out of luck. But show me one example where someone's free speech was not tolerated (other than a few cases of TOS violations).

My case against choosing unaccredited schools, California-approved or otherwise:

a. Little or no quality control. The BBPVE simply cannot do the job with what they have. Even they've said that, so it's hard to argue against it.

b. The degrees are not accepted for academic purposes (hiring in academia, transfer of credit, and admission to higher degree programs). Almost not at all.

c. The degree programs are often inferior to accredited schools.

d. In some jurisdictions, there is little assurance that the school will deliver what it promises, or even stay in business long enough for you graduate. (California has remedies for this.)

e. In the case of California-approved schools, their degrees and credits aren't even acceptable to other public and private schools in California!

f. While there is some acceptance of such degrees in employment, it drops off dramatically when employers find out the nature of "state-approved," "state licensed," etc. Even without finding out, however, they still rate state-approved and state-licensed degrees as significantly inferior to those from accredited schools.

g. All of the issues brought up by Tom.

 

Do you really think that you have some Papal dispensation that makes your ideas and assertions immune from any kind of disagreement or criticism?

Degreeinfo is just like the rest of real life. If you walk into a room where most people are skeptical or disagree with you, you can't just give them the alternatives of agreeing with you or remaining silent. That's what you are demanding here, you know.

What you need to do is win the room over. You need to present a persuasive case that convinces people that you are right.

Once again, your straw man.

This isn't an "RA only" board, and many of us have a great deal to say in favor of non-RA schools. I've done far more to promote them than you ever have.

What's more, the worst that can possibly happen to you on Degreeinfo when you say something unpopular is having somebody else disagree with you. It's their right to disagree with your ideas, just as it's your right to disagree with theirs. You don't have any magic immunity. So stop being so fragile and start being strong. Accept that your ideas will be criticised, and that if you want to reduce that criticism to a minimum you will have to expend some effort convincing other people that you are right.

If free speech doesn't exist on Degreeinfo, then how is it that you can continue to make post after post attacking the board and its participants for failure to dance to the tune of your shrill little pipe?

In your opinion, what would such a forum look like? How would it differ from Degreeinfo? What kind of participants would it have and what kind of opinions would one find on it? How would it respond to internal disagreements?

 

Frankly, I'm not convinced. I admit that my situation is different from yours (more "conventional"): I'm 24, and CCU doctorate would be major waste of time and money for me. Your post leaved me puzzled though: why would anyone spend any money on a degree wich "will have no practical application"? Note that I said "degree", not "education".
I have no problem with others choosing CCU: from what I know, it is not a fraudulent school.

 

At 24, I would not have considered such a thing. I am looking at $100 per month under their budget plan - not serious coin.

 

I believe that few here would consider CCU fraudulent. For some reason that's unknown to me (I'm not affiliated with CCU.) we actually have a large number of CCU students and alumnus that post to this forum. CCU is apprently trying to become accredited with DETC. I think they have a good chance. Unlike most unaccredited schools they seem credible and don't have any known embarassing skeletons in their past.

 

There are far too many firms that think a "credential" can offset any lack of direct experience, though....


And far too many people, especially in this economy, are desperate for whatever they think will give them an edge on their next job--- and I don't think it's unreasonable to let people know that they need to do their own due diligence when looking for DL programs. The last thing anyone wants to do is spend a chunk of change on a degree, only to find out it's going to be viewed as worthless in their field.