Accs Denied Reaffirmation Of Accreditation

guys

North and Bill,

You both definitely have my sympathy. I would take heart in the fact, if Tom Head's observation is true, that TRACS has not developed a "probationary" strategy yet. Of course, you will all be looking into the particulars much more than we at this point.

Keep us posted. I am sure your work will not be "wasted."

Chris

 

Ouch

Bill G, North et al

My wife has just gone through a similar "carpet from under the feet" scenario. The seminary she was attending has decided to close its doors. Though she wasn't involved in the distance program, Prairie Graduate School has been mentioned on this site before (it is affiliated with Prairie Bible Institute).

My wife is able to transfer a number of her credits to another institution but others close to the end of their programs had to make some tough decisions re: finishing their degrees at a soon-to-be-non-existent school or throw away money and credit hours to start fresh at a new seminary.

A number of issues came into play with this decision. One of interest to this forum is the decision that moving from ATS candidacy to ATS membership represented a large amount of money (library additions, salaries, sabbaticals, etc.).

I understand the business decision it was, but I also am aware of the human impact it had on faculty and students. Hopefully things will be righted for ACCS in time to avoid such decisions for yourselves.

Jeff

 

I should say that I do not blame TRACS. Although intially upset, I do understand that TRACS is doing its job. Whatever happened with ACCS it seems they let the ball drop. It would be interesting to find out more details of what areas were problematic. The upside for TRACS is that they are apparently (on the surface of this) holding schools accountable for compliance with standards.

I hope ACCS manages to come into compliance and get back into the good graces of TRACS. It is very disappointing for students who have relied on ACCS doing what they were supposed to and investing our $$$$$ and effort in a school only to discover by accident that the school in some areas had to have failed to comply with requirements. I do feel for the staff at ACCS who have by and large been helpful and must certainly be in a stressful situation themselves.

Someone mentioned the fund raising issue. I recevied this as well. Apparently TRACS requires certain endowment or reserves in relation to the students and operating budget (ie to ensure the school was financially sound). ACCS seemed to be fund raising to meet the requirement based on the increased number of students and operating budget. I guess nothing new. Liberty U had some difficulties several years ago in this area.

Hopefully, this whole thing will work out and the statements above of ACCS staff in reagrd to coming into compliance will prove true.

North {Sigh........................... accredited doctorate so near and yet so far}

 

that hurts

I have talked with an individual at accs. They said that some of this had to do with a previous administration. There were also some balls dropped. I hope they get their act together. I have emailed them and want to encourage them to do what it takes to keep their accreditaion. I will be finishing my current class and then waiting and praying and hoping for good things.


Hurting with you guys

Robert

 

How do we know?

Outside of ACCS is it possible to get updates on the progress of a school like ACCS. i am putting my program on hold yet if i knew they were really working hard and it looked good, i might start back. I feel it is ashame to have to wait for the other shoe to drop in November.

Any thoughts?


Robert

 

Keep calling TRACS Robert, sorry for you and the others,

 

Just wondering what the status of this is...

 

I am very sorry to hear this, Bill. You have certainly put a lot of time, effort and energy into your studies. I feel really bad for you because you are one of the few on here with a real heart for humanity, a caring soul of compassion for those who fall, and a passion for redemption to those who fail. I will pray all goes well for you. I don't understand the short time frame to correct the problems. November is around the corner. I hope this for Mr. North also as he too is a good man. I know full well how such can make one feel. Bethany was an associate member of TRACS when I was working on my PhD and Golden State (at least they so stated) was seeking DETC. Oh well, hopefully CCHS will still be DETC acredited when I finish my final five courses and earn the M.S.

 

This is interesting. I have received four phone calls asking me about enrolling. They had my name on file from the days I was looking into an accred. doc. at LRS, ACCS and some South African Schools. I was told during one of these conversations TRACS would no longer allow them to offer the six-month payment plan.

 

I don't know exactly what I would do were I Bill or North. I might just go ahead and finish; I imagine that if they do lose accreditation they will bend over backward to keep enrolled students. I think the school is still good. Bill and North both seem to indicate the work is reasonably rigorous and educationally productive. Two things would be on my mind: 1.) I would feel that GAAP accreditation might well be re-certified fairly quickly. 2.) The other thing is that ministry is one area where a legitimate but unaccredited doctorate does have a reasonable level of utility. If one is pleased with the program, then the program is good regardless of accreditation. Of course, the dollar value of the program is much diminished in light of the loss of utility. And there is some loss, but I don't know if it is tremendous. Of the GAAP accredititors one might argue that TRACS is the least recognized--it is accredited and it is GAAP, to be sure, but my understanding is that many, many schools and some denominational entities, will not take TRACS degrees. Many schools deal with TRACS and other national accreditors on a case by case basis--not that differently than they might some of the better unaccredited schools. Especially in Bill's case, where he will have one GAAP doctorate, I am not certain that the second doctorate being unaccredited is an insurmountable problem. In my case, I have an unaccredited Th.D. which has served me pretty well. I too am finishing up a degree in South Africa, and I still have the UC C.Phil in English. Without question I will "feature" the UNISA degree on my resume, but I do not plan to drop the Louisiana Baptist Th.D. The unaccedited degree has been reasonably effective in doing what I want to do. I would prefer that it were accredited, obviously, but I knew at the time that my doctoral degree in English would be accredited (either from UC or UNISA) so, because I saw the Th.D. as a secondary credential, though I actually got it first, I wanted to spend less than 4 thousand dollars--which I was able to do. With so much student loan debt from my 10 years in residential RA universities, I simply could not justify a significant (12-20K) expenditure on a theology degree. I did not know at the time how absurdly inexpensive some of the SA schools could be, and I could not see two UNISA degrees on one resume anyway.

I hope this works out for both Bill and North. I think all will ne well in the end. Even if the degree ends up unaccredited, which will may well close the school, I think the degree may still have surprising utility in some areas of life, especially in conjuction with another, accredited doctorate.

Blessings

Craig

 

This is an excellent idea but remember LRS requires some residency, IIRC.

 

Full disclosure

Since there has been so much discussion of FULL DISCLOSURE when posting about unaccredited or unrecognized accredited schools and of those who hold such degrees, would it be in order for ACCS to state their current TRACS situation so any and all prospective students will have all the facts prior to enrolling?

 

should be decided in Nov

 

try, try again

Jimmy and Craig

I just typed up a nice response but couldn't submit. Up popped "You can only submit every 75 seconds." But I hadn't done so for hours. Here's hoping this goes through.

First, thanks for your empathy. ACCS's stumble was a shock. Too bad I had to hear it from TRACS instead of ACCS.

Second, this period of waiting is in two ways helpful to me. I am a little short of $ right now anyway. I pay ACCS one class at a time and need to finish about four classes plus the Applied research which would total around three grand. On the other hand tuition is entirely paid off at Unizul. Second, now that I am not actively doing two docs at once, I'm really pumpin out the dissertation pages for UZ.This is important as I wish to finish in Nov 04 to get the degree in 5-04 in time for my 65th BD in June.

Third, yes, Craig, I understand that some find an unaccredited or non GAAP doc sufficient. Personally I would not. It may quite be possible that I never will formally use the DTh if I finish. Nevertheless, I want my doc to be accredited or GAAP.

It is possible to read the exact areas (on the TRACS site) where ACCS was found wanting. One of these , if I recall correctly, was that ACCS does not have profs with accredited PhDs/ThDs in all the areas in which instruction is given at the doc level. This is oft the short coming of non accred schools. Were my understanding correct, then we have an organization[TRACS], one religiously conservative, questioning the quality of doctoral instruction, in general terms, when it is not done by those with appropriate doctoral degrees. We could add to TRACS , of course, the perception in the minds of most accredited seminaries, or universities as Unizul, of unaccredited grad work. Of course, as you say, in some contexts it may not matter.

I , for one, think it very possible , but rare, that grad theology work might be done in a good manner the by the same individual regardless of whether the school were accredited.

I just think doctoral work in theology more likely is rigorously done at a genuine doctoral level when one's prof or promoter him or herself has an accredited doc. I doubt that it generally happens that one with unaccredited credentials can lead another into experiencing the rigor of an accredited program. But it might. I think it does not often occur either because it is not known what really is involved in such study or it is known but deception is attempted.

I am now in the throes of research at a level I've not before experienced either in the EdD program [not finished ] at OSU or the four year ThM at Western . I am convinced my thesis is correct and have set out to prove it in a way I believe to be novel and undone in all of theological literature. If I finish, my research will be read and evaluated by four well qualified and experienced profs from three South African Universities.

What I want , what I hope for, is that those four profs speaking as representatives of their universities and for theological academe in the end will say to me, "Your work is genuinely at doctoral level." Now between you and me, I know a PhD{ from Dallas TS in NT) , an acquaintance who reads my chapters too. I want someone close by to watch my "back" and my SA Promoter knows this is happening and has approved it.

Thank you both for your remarks, I hope I don't come off as prideful. I think I am that way, but try not to let it show

 

ie, get the degree in 5-05