Is a Bachelor Degree useless?

Me Again, I can't agree more with you that the Bachelor Degree is becoming useless as the entry requirements to Post graduate degrees are numbed down especially with some antipodean universities. One can pursue an MBA without need for a Bachelors degree which use to be the case but no longer.

Secondly, you have brought up a very good issue in that degrees as a whole are losing their lustre as employers realise achievements not just academic are important in the corporate world. The credentialist approach was good to a certain point but now because of the oversupply and overhang of graduates and postgraduates in the market, those letters after your name are beginning to lose their importance. Save of course you went through a certain exercise and discipline to get those letters.

 

This is an interesting thread. I can say that in my part of the world (Seattle area), and in my profession (I.T.), a Bachelors degree has fast become the low bar to entry. An M.S. is desired in many jobs, but a B.S. is usually quite satisfactory.

Before I got my degree, my (IMHO stellar) resume used to get tossed on the trash heap for most perm jobs (as opposed to contract) I applied to. The ads clearly stated a Bachelors degree as a requirement, and I was lacking. Now that I put a legitimate B.S. on my resume, I get calls from corporations and headhunters on a weekly basis.

I can also now see why it is a bar to entry. I wish to assume that someone with a B.S. can write, do some math, knows something about the society in which we operate in, has some or all of the technical abilities that I look for in a candidate and so on. I think that, as a rule, college graduates are better rounded individuals.

In that a Bachelors is a requirement for so many jobs, I cannot see how it can thought of as useless.

 

Per the economist (& Bus. Week) as of 2002 29% of the US populuation over 25 has a 4-year degree.

Which means that 71% does not - which does not bode well for their future.

 

Please break this down...the comment reminds of those text-book sales reps who also claim they work in education.

 

It use to be the case that credentialism was good but I think there are negative conotations to it now. With many degrees one gets an approving nod and that is about it. Soon everyone will have a useless degree with nothing much to boast about except maybe their experience if they are wise enough to have accumulated it cleverly.

 

Re: Value of a degree

Except that IT employment is 17% up over what it was at the height of the dot-com bubble.

Are we likely to see the hiring frenzy of the late 90's?- No, those times are gone. There are jobs for those who react to the times. I have more job offers than I know what to do with (wireless, security, VOIP, security clearance).

 

I'd go back to the original question from a few years ago: "Is a Bachelor Degree useless?"

The answer is, no it is not useless -- unless you failed to learn something in the process of earning it -- unless the education you received did not somehow form you as a person.

However, if your criteria for "usefulness" is strictly economic then the answer is that in some cases a bachelor's degree doesn't make a lot of difference. In many many cases, though, it does -- directly or indirectly. There are just too many variables to draw a conclusion that is applicable to everyone.

 

If you looked at the biographies some of my DL students post, you'd certainly think so. Almost everyone is working full-time at some scut job, and it seems like a quarter of them are also single parents. Or they're raising a newborn and are thrilled with the chance to study at home. My hat is off to them.

But there are a lot of things to slow people down. When I went to Regents, I think the whole thing cost me less than a month's salary as a nurse's aid. (I was saving up to buy a farm in WV at the same time.)

You can certainly get a college education for free now, but I suppose you always could if you lived near a good library.

The dream of a free college degree seems tantalizingly close. There are so many good free resources available, so many people who are willing to put in lots of time making it available. And there are protocols like the Big 3 and WGU that could provide models for making learning available efficiently.

This is actually on topic, I think, because if a free liberal college education were available, people who love learning would have to worry less about the buy in vs. the payoff and could indulge their dreams.

I understand that there are some Christian colleges that offer free or nearly free educations to those who have a call. It would be nice if there were something similar for the rest.

 

The desire to get degrees has become way out of proportion here in Asia and every Tom, Dick and Harry has one whether legitimately or not. Thus employers are becoming discerning and looking beyond paper qualifications in their quest for that perfect candidate.

The numbing down of entry requirements by antipodean and Asian unis results in the fact that most people can obtain degrees right up to Masters level, pretty soon doctorate too if we are not careful.

This comes back to the question is a Bacherlor degree useless, "Yes" I am sad to say and only because supply outstrips demand. Secondly, a professional qualification that certifies work experience would be more appropriate for the workplace than a degree which certifies that you have gone through the learning process but may and does not guarantee that the candidate will apply what he has learnt.

 

Useless, no. Less valuable than in the past, maybe.

A Bachelor's degree won't land you a job with 100% certainty, but it will get your resume through the screening question "Degree yes/no?". It also allows you to apply for all jobs which say "Degree required", "Bachelors required" etc.

Not everyone will benefit from their Bachelors in a financial sense. But it has been proven that on average, those with degrees earn substantially more over their life time than those that don't have one.

It's possible that in 20 years most jobs will say, "Masters required". If that's the case, it's much easier to complete a masters if you already have a bachelors then if you don't.

Brandon

 

In a word, yes.

 

Personally Coach it boils down to a lack of motivation, or moreso a decrease in motivation.

I always start out strong but motivation decreases as I go along. It almost feels like I have ADD. The strange thing is that in my career I am always very thorough and complete but when it comes to my studies I have motivational issues. Maybe that does equal a lack of ability but I still see that it boils down to the individual.


*EDIT* Didn't realize how old this thread was.

 

Actually, the bachelors is the most useful degree at least in business and technology. I would think that Master's degree tend to be more useless for the real world than bachelors. Other than MBAs and some technical master's degrees, master's degree are pretty useless when it comes to job opportunities and salary raises.

PhD degrees can be perhaps the most useless degree outside academic jobs, most jobs won't require this level of education and the few academic jobs that require this level of education tend to be highly competitive. Most PhDs will spend some time as post docs before they can land a tenure track, some will never make it to a tenure track and take jobs that normally won't require a PhD and some others will become professional adjuncts.

For business and technology, I normally advice my students to avoid wasting time with graduate degrees and spend more time getting business certifications such as CFA, CPA, CA, etc. A CFA pays way more than an MBA and requires about the same amount of work.

 

I think there is a saturation of bachelor's degree holders in some fields/markets, and that will influence salaries heavily. In those areas, you'll need at least a master's, and possibly some graduate certificates, to get ahead.

 

Unethical Practices

It is most unethical of some unis and colleges to over charge their candidates not least allowing them to continue without the assistance but wanting in upfront continuous fees. One such example is the antipodean CSU. But then again there will be many victims of this ruse until someone makes an exposure of the whole issue. Higher education is akin to Madoff ponzi schemes and one may have to pay for life. It is the one unnoted pyramid schemes that has still to be exposed to the public to beware in general.

 

Rich Douglas,
...or anyone else that would like to reply...

I have a question that pertains to this discussion, but is aimed more at my personal situation.

I have two associate degrees and a Bachelor in Business Administration.

I work in a prototype tool and die shop (my 1st Associate Applied Science) and I am also an Instructor at a Community College in the Skilled Trades division (BBA helped me land this position).

***

I have applied for a Masters program (Economics) for two main reasons:

1. I work for a small shop so I know it won't help me right now, but in the future I might be able to find a better job in a mid-sized or larger corp. in the manufacturing industry.

2. I like to teach on the college level and a Masters Degree could open doors for part-time teaching opportunities, or could lead to a full-time tenured professor position and I could pursue a doctorate. (This may sound strange, but I love reading and discussing Economics, Politics and Human Nature)

My questions to you ...

Are my reasons realistic good enough to warrant 20K ???

Would this Masters be useless since I have no current leads on a job that it would apply to???

How feesable is a doctorate pursuit at my age (mid-forties)???

Thanks for any replies!

 

Up over 17%???? We all know that IT salaries and jobs were EXTREMELY over-valued back then. There were a lot less IT workers back then, most normal people figured their was some magic or hard science to the IT jobs. when they figured out you could study for 2 weeks and take the A+ cert and rob some management sap of money to "work on computers" you had it made. Then they You guys took business owners and companies for a nice little ride during the Y2K scare.

Only people being hired for IT jobs are H1b's. Everyone else, especially older IT workers, are being priced/ageist out of jobs by "the best and brightest" from India.

YOU are the exception to the rule.

B.A.? Pretty much worthless. Just a check mark for HR drones to make their job a little easier.

 

03310151, That is an oversimplification. It's true that commodity-like skills get outsourced to India and other places way too much. But like any other industry, people who do the high end work have more job opportunities than they know what to do with. And while a bachelors degree may be a check box to be filled in by the HR screener, not filling it in often means "game over" for the job seeker. If the difference is getting hired with a bachelors degree or not getting hired at all, then certainly the degree has value.

 

Short Certification Programs

It is better to do short certificate programs in Oracle and SAP than doing a degree in IT as these days even some unis and colleges are out of date when it comes to training their wares. Lecturers are antiquated in their skills and may teach redundant theories which are no longer respected or used. In other words they are pass their sell by date. It is also better to do various certificates in software languages from the orignator, in big demand than to do a degree. As the languages would provide you with instant employment and do away with the need to wait years before you are qualified to do the job. Perhaps do it part time whilst you hold down a job and that way you have the best of both worlds.

 

I agree with the below comment. The modern associate's degree is valuable in several fields. (See the associate's degree thread for more info: http://www.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?t=8103)