Are certain degrees losing their credibility and value?

Due to the downgrading of admission requirements, the watering down of curriculum content and the emphasis on grade escalation and social promotion, it appears that advanced degrees in such academic areas as Psychology and related Social Service programs are losing credibility.

This trend to accommodate certain applicants from specific socioeconomic backgrounds, by lowering academic standards for admission, and possibly expectations for excellent academic performance, is now entering the field of Medicine, where a significant number of medical schools are giving greater emphasis on ethnicity, and socioeconomic background for admission, while decreasing emphasis on academic attainment and MCAT scores.

It is understandable that certain accommodations are helpful to address the inequities experienced by specific groups of applicants. However, this raises the question whether making these significant concessions will result in the formation of a Potemkin Village effect, whereby the degrees attained by these students may seem impressive, but may be perceived as subpar and lacking credibility by their colleagues and the public.

This perception may be magnified in the field of medicine where individuals who were admitted to medical programs based on ethnicity and socioeconomic background may be looked upon by their mainstream colleagues with suspicion, or even worse, with disdain.

Furthermore, contrary to the good intentions of medical schools to increase the number of physicians from socioeconomic disadvantaged backgrounds, will this actually enhance the status of these graduates, or increase bias due to the public's awareness of the special admission and curriculum accommodations they received that may not be equivalent to those of mainstream graduating physicians?

 

Among who? This is a big assumption. People acknowledge that certain degrees are so-called "cash cows" but they still pay the money to attend them and employers still clamor to higher their graduates. Grade inflation is rampant in the Ivies but they still get hired at Big4, MBB, IB/PE and other prestigious firms.

Medical schools have taken into account holistic admissions for years. Regents of University of California v. Bakke (1978) which first established the constitutionality of considering race in admission decisions is almost 45 years old. (See https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/affirmative-action-and-medical-school-admissions/2012-12 for more decisions where the Supreme Court upheld this.)

Citation needed. There's no evidence that practices going back decades have resulted in worse care. And lots of evidence that white doctors routinely provide worse care to people of color: "Scores of studies buttress NAM’s findings by documenting that providers are less likely to deliver effective treatments to people of color when compared to their white counterparts—even after controlling for characteristics like class, health behaviors, comorbidities, and access to health insurance and health care services" (https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/the-state-of-healthcare-in-the-united-states/racial-disparities-in-health-care/).

Getting into medical school is only half the battle. Yes, you'll always have people with prejudices assuming that every Black physician is a "diversity hire" but the reality is they need to earn their right in to medical school and out. The USMLE isn't scored differently based on race. Neither are the Board exams.

This whole post seems based on a series of assumptions that don't hold up. Was the intent just to stoke divisiveness?

 

Just because it's easier to get into a degree doesn't mean that it's easier to finish.

Is your impression that certain degrees are worth less because more people can get them or because more people with the "wrong skin color" can get them? Sounds like the latter, and that's gross.

 

Sounds like you are spreading your woke propaganda once again

 

Sounds to me, more like you're spewing -- uh, spreading your OWN kind of propaganda, Johann. Can't say I like it - at all.

Johann 666

 

JAN: Quite frankly Dustin, the question you pose as to my purported intent to "stoke diviviseviness", is a projection, because that is what you did. You skewed and misrepresented my intent which was to present significant issues that some posters may or may not be aware of, that may not have relevance to your academic goals, but to those others.

 

If your goal is to get into and graduate from medical school, you should probably spend more time on that and less time on whatever this thread is.

 

I would not say degrees are losing credibility nor are admissions standards decreasing. Instead, I believe institutions of higher education are beginning to recognize that not everyone has the same financial capabilities as others (regardless of race, gender, etc.) and because of that, are trying to find solutions to accommodate those individuals.

Education should not be difficult to access…especially when people are just wanting to learn and make themselves more competitive in an already tough job market.

We have let prestige and elitism take over higher education and it is crazy…and that is coming from someone who is about to graduate with a degree from Duke. I always tell students, find a program that fits you and your career goals. If it is at Harvard, great. If it is at West Texas A&M, great! In the long run, your performance in the work place supersedes where you got your degree.

 

Also, to touch on the medical school side of things…

My brother is an Attending Emergency Room Physician. While in undergrad, I’d say he spent roughly $5,000 to $10,000 on MCAT Test Prep plus MONTHS of studying. Fortunately for him, our parents are very well off and was able to cover the cost for him. There are other individuals who were just as smart as he was with just as good of grades as he had that did not get to utilize the same prep he had because they could not afford to do so. Those individuals who were not as fortunate should not be viewed as lesser than in the admissions process just because they scored a 508 instead of a 517 when they got that 508 utilizing their old textbooks to study instead of offerings from Kaplan or whoever else.

I could go on for days about making education more accessible and lowering the financial barriers for individuals who come from low income households.

 

Rachel, quite frankly, what is "gross" is your inability to focus on the topic I presented, not race, which Dustin impulsively transitioned to, when my objective was to open a discussion relating to current situations which impact on many. As an aside, assisting a significant number of undergraduate and graduate students with their coursework and job resumes, generally, I have observed a significant decline in their academic ability as well as the rigor of their academic programs.

Furthermore, you obviously appear complacent in allowing anyone, regardless of academic strengths and limitations, to enter any degree program they wish. What you fail to understand is that by doing so may seriously frustrate those individuals who fail to complete these academic programs due to a lack of academic ability, resulting in feelings of faure. This has nothing to do with your preoccupation with race, but regardless whether you are a student applicant from Mars, Venus or Jupiter!




I

 

With all due respect, I didn't realize that you dictate the content of posters' topics/threads! In fact, I am a healthcare professional with significant experience interacting with Physicians from all ethnicities, religions and from third world countries. No issues
whatsoever with their competence, an issue you seem to be preoccupied with.

 

Josh, thank you for your response.

A major problem in our culture is that there is an over emphasis on obtaining college degrees, when a significant number of young students may not be academically inclined to pursue a university degree. They may not actually wish to do so but are urged by society, family and peers to do so, regardless of their strengths and interests which may be in non-academic fields such as specific vocational areas of training. In fact, many graduates of vocational programs are earning very high salaries while their college peers are either unemployed or earning much less. In fact, a recent study revealed that many employers are placing much less emphasis in their hiring decisions on whether a job applicant posses a college degree than with their level of experience.

 

The OP offers a lot of unsupported assertions and a cause-and-effect that they do not prove.

 

Josh, obviously an admission decision into medical school should not be predicated on a diminutive difference on MCAT scores between applicants, or some insignificant disparity in GPA. However, what needs to be considered is whether the applicant has the academic capability, in addition to the personal characteristics, to complete a rigorous medical curriculum. Medical school is not the place to receive remedial academic assistance to get up to par academically. The reason is straightforward. First of all is the significant cost for a medical education, and the many years necessary on the part of professors to instruct a student, preparing them for their role as a physician.

Most importantly, is the outcome, which is obviously whether the student will emerge from medical studies with the capacity to accurately diagnose and treat patients with myriad medical conditions, collaboratively and compassionately.

 

And your response is merely provocative with nothing substantial to offer other than to flame!

 

I disagree with this. Perhaps being a little more specific on my part might help. You say

Is there any back up to these assertions? Have standards been downgraded? What watering down of curriculum content? I don't know that social service programs are losing credibility. What has lead to that conclusion?

My wild guess is that this is all based on the idea that some schools may be trying to include admissions from socio-economic less advantaged folks. Is that what this is really based on?

 

As an addendum to this thread, due to some posters diverting this thread to issues of race, an interesting anecdotal experience by a physician colleague provides a glimpse of what may occur if high standards for admission to medical schools are negated.

My colleague and friend, who is a Dermatologist, attended a Dermatology Seminar attended by approximately a thousand physicians. When it was announced that there was proposal to cease administering the MCAT entrance exam and to place greater emphasis on the ethnicity of the applicant and their socioeconomic background for admission to medical school, the majority of physicians stood and applauded this change.

However, my colleague reported that the only physicians who seemed displeased with this proposal, and who did stand and applaud, were five physicians of color, with many years of experience, who related to my friend that they perceived this devaluation of admission criteria to infer that applicants of color were unable to compete intellectually and academically with mainstream medical school applicants. They also related that they were concerned that when these students graduate they would not be perceived or accepted by colleagues as equally trained or competent, that may increase bias on the part of their colleagues as well as their patients.

 

Responses to a number of your questions are noted in my response to your initial question. There is a trend in the Social Services to engage in major social reform rather than on academic rigor or in the production of substantive, meaningful research that can be pragmatically applied to clients who can benefit from such research.

 

No. I think she called out bigotry.