EENI Business school - and University?

Well, TRACS didn't seem to think it mattered. And I'm not aware of any regulation that applies to them that say they have to. If there were, I'm sure we'd have heard about it long before now.

And I'm aware of DETC / DEAC and UNISA and Leicester. Yes - those Unis had prior full recognition in their own countries. And so did an Australian University that also had DETC accreditation for some years. I think it was Deakin. I guess we'll have to differ, on the level of importance.

As you say, Rich, it's reasonable to draw different assessments. And we do. We're reasonable guys. Thanks.

 

I don't think this makes your case. In this case, UoP decision makers were wrong, as CEU was and is properly recognized (at the time, by Hungary). Moreover, CEU is an excellent school, making UoPs stance even more absurd.

Charisma is not an excellent school, I would not recommend anyone to attend it. However, it is NA.

 

Logically, Austrian OR American recognition is enough to demonstrate legitimacy.

If a self-governing BOT licenses it as an educational institution and it's within the scope of their self-rule, why not? I don't thing Britain would even grant a Charter in this case, citing TCI's autonomous status.

 

It is? Not according to TRACS, Charisma, and Charisma's Wikipedia page. Perhaps I missed it.

They did with UWI.

 

I am making no case. I'm arguing no point. I told an interesting (to me) anecdote somewhat related to the issue.

As I said earlier, the assertions seem to be in agreement (except for one about Charisma being NA; I find no evidence of that.) And from those assertions differing assessments may be formed. I'm pretty confident in mine.

 

Right. It's not a done deal. I said somewhere my take was predicated on the fact that I think it's likely. I believe site visit was scheduled for Jan 23 or thereabouts. I think we should hear um...something, soon.

 

It wasn't you that asserted it.

I would not be at all surprised to see them get accredited by TRACS. They are accredited by ACBSP, which I contend is the same as being accredited by nothing. Why would TRACS be any different?

 

Apples and oranges. ACBSP is a programmatic, not an institutional accreditor. It accredits programs, not schools. TRACS is an institutional accreditor. It accredits schools, not individual programs. -

TRACS accreditation says something about the school. ACBSP says something about the business programs. Like them or not, neither accreditation means "nothing." Nor is it accreditation by "nothing."

And I notice Charisma has the TRACS Belief Statement on its site, in full detail - and say they adhere to it. Again, I think they'll get their wish.

 

I re-checked. TRACS scheduled the Charisma site visit for Jan 16th -19th 2023. The purpose of the visit was for Candidacy - not for Accreditation. So they may have a while yet. Source: https://tracs.org/tracs-commission-news/

I think it's somewhat like it is with RA. You get to Candidacy, you generally make the cut, as long as you live up to expectations.

 

I can readily believe that. T&C has its own Ministry of Education. (One Ministry, that covers several portfolios including Education.)

"Charisma University is a non-profit institution recognized by the Turks and Caicos Islands Ministry of Education, Labour, Employment and Customer Service [2][3] to offer accredited undergraduate, graduate, post-graduate degree programs and certificate programs in various disciplines..." (That's from Wiki and I think it's also on the school site.)

Looks like "Ministry Recognition" by the home Authority to me... Even if Turks and Caicos Is. are not technically a country, they are significant enough to have their own Ministry of Education, etc.

 

Something strikes me as unusual, here: "to offer accredited programs." Did the multi-tasking Ministry actually say "Accredited" or put it in writing?

If they did, as they very well might have, it shouldn't signify "accredited by them" - because AFAIK the Ministry, with all due respect, is empowered to give permission, but doesn't have the resources for the due diligence and academic oversight that accreditation (our definition) requires. However, it is true, nowadays, that The Uni. in question is offering accredited programs - ACQUIN is real accreditation, even if US only recognizes it as foreign - which, of course, it is.

No big problem - just a bit confusing. as I said above, whatever the Ministry said shouldn't be taken as "accredited by them." They don't do that. They probably don't even have a rubber stamp that says "Accredited." The only thing it CAN mean is - accredited by someone else. And yeah - the school has had that for some time. ACQUIN.

So the whole thing is mostly moot now, with ACQUIN,and will be really moot, for us, if the school becomes TRACS-accredited. And I think it will.

 

Specifically TCI has their own community college that looks substantial enough, doesn't have a Royal Charter, is licensed by TCI (listed on the web page right next to Charisma). Oh, and seems to award Bachelor's degrees.

 

Yes. I concede, though, that the case of German accreditation for a non-German school is unusual; I don't know what does it mean, legally. There's no guarantee it will get a favorable credential evaluation, especially if there's no option for opinion shopping among NACES members. But when it's TRACS, it will be NA just the same way as CEU is RA. Again, I don't say CEU and Charisma are the same; CEU is clearly a much better school.

Also, you're right in noticing that Charisma's wording is somewhat misleading. Mill-ish, even. One of the reasons the school may be accredited, but still not a good choice.

I would be most interested in what the legal status of such a degree be in Germany. German authorities are notoriously hard-nosed (I saw a case when they rejected a RA Bachelor's as entry qualification for Master's, on the grounds that the student articulated into that program from Swiss private hospitality school that had no academic recognition. A kid, family friend's son, lost a chance to join his girlfriend in Germany and wes quite bummed out. Stupid, if you ask me).
Another similar case would be Concordia University Ukraine (former Wisconsin International University - Ukraine, a school with ties to an old degree mill). ConcordiaUA is different, though, in that they have accreditation for all their programs that are actually regulated in Ukraine (there's no government standard for Business Administration as a major). They actually teach their stuff as dual degrees, "BS in International Management/BBA" and such. Professor Romanovskiy knows his stuff.

 

As far as I know, it would be considered unaccredited because they have a "Systemakkreditierung" and not a "Programmakkreditierung"!

 

Thanks. That would present a problem for graduates trying to get a foreign credential evaluation for a Charisma degree in US. Not every evaluator would go by the TCI Ministry license alone. Of course, when it'll be TRACS it'll be TRACS.

 

I disagree. I would think "Systemakkreditierung" means the whole school, as US National or Regional accreditation means.
The school is accredited, all courses it teaches, not just certain individual programs, and consequently ALL its degrees have full standing. "Programmakkreditierung" sounds like programmatic accreditation - like ACBSP or (gasp!) AACSB. That type of accreditation has nothing to do with the "whole school" - it's supposed to enhance - give specialized accreditation, for higher standing, to the degree programs from the discipline(s) they accredit - Business programs, in the cases of the two mentioned.

I think "System" is vital. ACQUIN provides that. "Programm" is icing on the cake. ACQUIN doesn't do icing. But Charisma still has some. ACBSP for its business programs. If ACQUIN was programmatic. I'd agree - the school would have no institutional accreditation -i.e. unaccredited. But ACQUIN is not programmatic. Its accreditation covers the whole school - it's institutional in nature. Consequently, ALL its degrees come from a school which is fully accredited. ( We speak of "accredited degrees" but what they really are is degrees granted by an institutionally accredited school.) And no matter what I think of the school itself - that's what I think Charisma is, with ACQUIN. If TRACS issues its blessing, it will still be institutionally accredited - but by a US recognized accreditor.

@Mac Juli Mac, you know German well. I don't. Do these two terms, System and Programm mean what I said they mean? I was pretty sure of them.... I thought.

 

I think it's odd that TRACS accredits schools with very secular degree offerings.

 

That's where the money is. There are only so many all / mostly religious, or religiously sincere degree-granting schools who want and can pay for this level of accreditation. There is no end of other schools which want the key to the Title IV Funding Room and are willing to inject some Godliness into the curriculum, to attain it at a reasonable price.

I think it's logical - not odd. The religious schools get what they want. The "new converts" get what they want, too. "Missionary Position Accreditation." As I said, I believe some are sincere about the religion part, others may be doing it pro forma. I make no individual judgments here.

I'm an atheist - or an infidel in some circles. I have no business judging religious matters ... so I don't.