Average excess death rates were 76% higher among Republicans than Democrats

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Bill Huffman, Dec 14, 2022.

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  1. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    quote: COVID-19
    Average excess death rates in Florida and Ohio were 76% higher among Republicans than Democrats from March 2020 to December 2021

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/covid-death-rates-higher-republicans-democrats-why-rcna50883

    This is especially relevant after DeSantis spread his stupid lies about Covid19 vaccines for cheap political gains at the cost of more Republican lives, no doubt.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/13/desantis-grand-jury-covid-19-vaccines-00073718

    The moral of this story is that the Republican insanity goes much deeper than just Trump.
     
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  2. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I wish I understood what has happened to people. Were we this nuts before the 2008 financial crisis? Somehow a significant part of the U.S. population distrusts government at every level and also distrusts non governmental organizations as well. I know that a deeply cynical fraction of the media is willing to cash in on this distrust. There have always been (Yiddish term deleted) jerks who profit from hate. But these people are willing to die rather than put their trust in anyone or anything. It's a largely preventable tragedy.
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    So, vaccines, masks, and social distancing....worked? Not only did they save hundreds of thousands of lives, they demarcated the people who understand science and those who truck in superstition and conspiracy theories.

    (Of course, I object to the use of the term "theory." Conspiracy theories are not theories at all. Theories are the best explanation of the phenomenon in question. Conspiracy theories are better considered SWAGS--Stupid Wild-Assed Guesses.)
     
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks Rich. Best single comment on COVID I've seen.
     
  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Jan. 23, 2023 – U.S. health officials want to simplify the recommended COVID-19 vaccine protocol, making it more like the process for annual flu shots.

    https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20230123/fda-wants-annual-covid-vaccinations-just-like-annual-flu-shots

    The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is suggesting a single annual shot.
    The formulation would be selected in June targeting the most threatening COVID-19 strains, and then people could get a shot in the fall when people begin spending more time indoors and exposure increases.
     
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    All my shots are up to date except rabies and distemper.
     
    Rich Douglas likes this.
  7. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    And if there was an annual rabies shot for humans I'd get that, too. I'd stand in line for it tomorrow.
     
  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Lets hope the virus mutations will continue getting less deadly.
    From my understanding Delta was the latest mutation that aggressively attacked the lungs,
    Luckily large #'s are vaccinated, Omicron and some variants still can be deadly but most reports are its more like a flu that also takes tall.
     
  9. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    The problem with stats like those is that relative to the case rate, it's comparing a tiny death total to a tinier death total. Given that it's a politically themed article and targeting republicans, it's disingenuity at its finest on the part of NBC, but that's nothing new with mass media.

    Being of neither political party, I'm more interested in why there are so many excess deaths in general that are unrelated to the virus of covid itself, or why we've had this massive increase in athletes falling out or dropping dead since 2020? Take this story from 2021 for instance:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10314165/Football-seen-worrying-spike-cardiac-arrests-heart-related-issues-2021.html

    So just what is going on? Professor Sanjay Sharma, the UK's leading sports cardiologist who works with the FA as well as a number of Premier League clubs, is well placed to answer that question.

    'We've had this blitz in 2021,' said Prof Sharma, who is head of research and professor of sports cardiology for St George's University in London. 'I can see where you're coming from. It's worrying that there is suddenly a whole load of young men who are supposed to epitomise the healthier segment of our society suddenly crashing with cardiac problems.

    'Is there an issue? Are these people being tested properly? Is the game doing it? Is there something in the air to cause an increase? I'm keeping an open mind. My feeling is that this is probably a statistical cluster rather than something on the rise.


    Oh, no no, maybe it's the position of the constellations? Yeah man! Iss duh con-stuh-lay-shuns!

    Gimme an f'n break.

    Two major things were happening during that time and still remain, and we all damn well know it. Covid and the covid vaccines, both of which are known to cause heart issues to varying degrees. Examine those points, because it's not normal nor is just coincidence for highly trained healthy and physically fit young athletes to just start falling out with heart problems as often as they have since 2020.

    As far as social distancing, there is an article where a former FDA Commissioner says the 6ft rule was "arbitrary", and science isn't about arbitrary approaches, otherwise it's not science, so right there it started off on faulty ground. Now before anyone goes into a frenzy because he was under the Trump administration, keep in mind that the former Commissioner (who was not the commish when the covid situation landed) never said anything against the rule publicly before it went into force, and the FDA were all for it at the time.

    I've read some say things like "well, why didn't he speak up back when it started?" I think the answer is obvious. He was and still is getting a paycheck since he is (surprise surprise!) on Pfizer's board, and like most people with no integrity who tend to gravitate toward high government positions and positions with known and objectively criminal lying organizations like Pfizer, he did what they always do, either lie or say nothing to protect the position they hold and the benefits they get from it at the expense of the general public. They don't give a damn about us. Not one bit.

    When people say the vaccines/masks/distancing worked, the question is, based on what objective measure? Because the death rate overall has been about 1% both before and after the vaccines were available in the United States, and worldwide as a total. People have taken up to 4 shots and have still gotten covid after, many having gotten it multiple times throughout each round, why? Because as Dr. Rochelle Walensky (the CDC Director) herself admitted, the vaccines don't stop transmission, and nothing has changed since she said it. That doesn't sound like working very well since the whole point of a vaccine made for a virus is to prevent said virus unless you accept the cock and bull story that this onnnnnne vaccine is the onnnnnly one that's not supposed to. But to believe that crock of a story, you would have to also ignore or have somehow forgotten the fact that the entire corporate media and the alphabet health agencies literally claimed in crystal clear and certain terms for 9 months (before Walensky admitted what was already known) that "if you get the vaccine, you won't get or spread covid" but oh how quickly people forget. How quickly they forget that the claims kept changing each time they were disproven by data and publicly observable fact. It went like this:

    "if you get the vaccine, you won't get or spread covid!"

    To "if you get the vaccine, you won't spread covid!"

    To "if you get the vaccine, you can still get or spread covid, but you won't get hospitalized!"

    To "if you get the vaccine, you can still get or spread covid and you may get hospitalized, but you won't die!"

    And after all of that turned out to be untrue, it's now "if you get the vaccine, it won't be as bad as it would be if you were unvaccinated!"

    ^Yeah, well I'll be sure to let all the people know who either still died from covid after vaccination, or were permanently injured or died immediately or soon after from the vaccine itself like some of my healthy friends did. Ohhh, they'll sooo be happy to know that it "wasn't as bad" for them, smh...
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Considering how many of them claim this, it's interesting to me how people who were already conservatives are the only ones I've ever heard talk about how people they knew suddenly keeled over after getting vaccinated for Covid.
     
  11. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    If people distrust the government more now, good! GOOOD! It's about damn time, they have every reason, because our government and others around the world have done nothing but lie, steal, murder, and cover up for generations, and the covid ordeal might be a crescendo given how we now know about all of the released private letters and messages that U.S. government officials were sending pressuring social media networks to censor private citizens (and those networks went along with it), suppress factual studies from reputable Medical Journals that disproved the popular narrative, and on and on. That can't be unseen, should never be forgotten, and never be forgiven. If that alone doesn't tell you who those people really are, nothing ever will.

    A good memory is important and here is why:

    https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/nov/30/more-deaths-among-vaccinated-americans-not-reason/

    "It is true that people vaccinated against COVID-19 now comprise the majority of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S., but that’s been the case since April, and it is not a verdict on vaccine effectiveness, said Cynthia Cox, vice president at the Kaiser Family Foundation."

    ROFLMAO! Really? REALLY???

    Okay, so let me get this complete and total BS straight: outlets like Politifact, NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN, Reuters and the rest all spent an enormous amount of airtime making all of the aforementioned trust-building, definitive safety claims about the covid vaccines and their effectiveness against covid and keeping you from dying, but NOW they post stories like the above as if everyone forgot all of the things they said before? Absolute garbage.

    You can't make those definitive statements about the vaccines then once the house burns down on your claims say "well, this outcome of more vaccinated people dying of covid than the unvaccinated says nothing about the effectiveness of the vaccines!" That is unreal doublespeak. How are people buying this malarkey???

    To them I say, you claimed day and night for months on end that the vaccine meant those deaths wouldn't happen, and you said it with absolute silver bullet certainty. You said it, the print and video is out there and you can't take it back now. You were part of leading perhaps the heaviest censorship campaign in human history to slant, de-platform, and ruin the reputations of those--both public figures AND private citizens--who disagreed as "conspiracy theorists" even when they presented sound data from reputable medical/scientific sources, sources those media outlets refused to report from as facts came in which discredited the media and government narrative (Scientific American, Science Journal, British Medical Journal, etc). You destroyed careers and lives by doing that. For that you get no understanding and no forgiveness, nor do you deserve it. EVER. And none of your walking back on the things you claimed will ever be accepted. You were wrong, dead wrong, and that's at best. At worst, complicit in something nefarious, and that's in no way unbelievable given that companies like Pfizer actually do financially compensate these news outlets handsomely, even directly sponsoring news segments with the station mentioning that right after with the drug company logo on screen as they go to commercial.

    I'd tell them all to go to hell, but nah. Hell is much too good a place for demonic scum that low.
     
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Well, it is okay to question science. That's how science works. I find it amusing though when folks question science with little justification and then seem to claim things contrary with no factual basis. That is not how science works.
     
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  13. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    We can say masking and social distancing work because there are countries that did none of that and the death tolls have been horrific. Most notably, Sweden. They shut down nothing and only vaguely advised people to maybe social distance if they had concerns. Sweden isn't very densely populated, but it has (had) a really high death toll.

    One can also look at spikes in infections in countries that did do masking/social distancing. The spikes have a negative correlation with what mitigation procedures were being advised/enforced. I.E. lowered infection rates when masking/social distancing and higher rates when unmasked or no social distancing.

    Data is there, if anyone cares enough to look.

    Also, if one acknowledges that Covid deaths are occurring, but refuses to accept that vaccines, masking, and social distancing are all part of the solution, the question remains: what should we be doing instead? Right now, the trend is toward less deadly mutations, but that's sheer luck. Every infected person, whether they get seriously ill and whether they die or not, is another roll of the dice for a more dangerous mutation. So what should we do? Just ignore it and hope it becomes less inconvenient over time? Or should we continue to use our best, though imperfect, measures to attempt to halt its spread?
     
    Johann likes this.
  14. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    If you "don't understand" what this means, it's willful ignorance at this point. Other people have explained it better than I can, but it's really not that complicated. We're on an education forum, go take a (refresher) stats course.
     

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