Inexpensive (but rigorous) Language Learning Courses

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Rachel83az, Jan 15, 2023.

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  1. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    If you really want to learn Spanish for that Titulo Propio degree in Spain or another language to study abroad cheaply, I've got you covered.

    A0 - Not an official designation. Things on this list won't get you to fluency, but will help reinforce what you learn elsewhere.
    • Mondly - Mostly an app, but they do have a web version. The daily lesson is free. Unlock lifetime access to all lessons for (I believe) under $100.
    • Busuu - Mostly free/ad-supported these days. There are bits that you need to pay for, but I'm not sure what they are. The app UI sucks a bit, IMO, but the lessons are mostly useful. You can do them in any order, so you can review concepts you might be stuck on.
    • Memrise - Kind of a flashcard app. Kind of not. Plenty of free user-created content. The official courses include short videos of native speakers saying the phrase(s) in question. 2 or 3 speakers for each phrase, each with slightly different accents. Super helpful for "true" understanding of spoken words.
    • Drops - Flashcards. If you pay, so you can do things in any order, it's useful for drilling vocabulary topics. Unfortunately, all languages use the same word bank, so you will not be learning any culture-specific terms. And you might learn phrases that don't... really exist. Uncanny valley-style But it makes for interesting conversation with native speakers, so there is that.
    • LinDuo (not to be confused with Duolingo; I no longer recommend Duolingo) - This one is new to me, so I don't have much experience with it, but it seems like it could be a pretty good option. Ad-supported, or you can pay a one-time fee of between $2 and $10 to unlock everything.
    • Polygloss - Free app. In your target language, describe one of a set of 4 "clip art" pictures to a randomly chosen partner. They must figure out which one you chose, then they do the same. Gets progressively more challenging as you unlock new topics.
    • Clozemaster - Mostly flashcards. Can be very challenging or barely challenging at all, depending on if you've paid and what settings you're using. Web interface has the ability to turn a document of your choice into flashcards, so you can learn based on real material.
    • Rosetta Stone - Quite expensive. Somewhat unnatural sentence construction,construction, where most sentences are translated fairly literally and not into phrases a native would use. You'll be understood, but you might get lower marks if you're basing your thesis on things you learned via Rosetta Stone.
    • ModernStates - (Of course.) Has French, Spanish, and German. Not the greatest lessons, but free!
    • Kaizen - Lessons take the form of "text messages" between you and a "native speaker". Okay, but not great. I got bored with it pretty quickly, but YMMV.
    A1 - These are things you can use to get to at least A1, but possibly even further.
    • Speakly - Paid app. If used regularly, it can get you pretty far along the path to fluency. Not 100% fluent, but it's still one of the better apps out there. Sentences seem to be "mostly natural".
    • Babbel - Tried this app years ago, didn't understand it. Then I paid for it. It's actually pretty great. It has possibly the most natural sentences & conversation, as told to me by a native speaker. It's extremely boring compared to the pizazz of other apps, though, so it can be a bit tedious to use. It's very much like an electronic textbook, which has its ups and downs.
    • LingoPie - A kind of Netflix for language learning. Each language has different content, native TV shows & movies taken from the country/countries where the language is spoken. You're not going to find anything famous here, but they do have some interesting stuff.
    • LingoDeer & LingoDeer+ - Two different apps, two different prices, slightly different concepts. Some languages are better designed than others. Really good for Japanese. Okay for some western languages and maybe Korean. Vietnamese is pretty bad (unless they've done an update recently). There are usually sales around Chinese/Lunar New Year.
    • Pimsleur - If you can get past the frankly sometimes really bizarre conversation topics, it's not bad. I don't think it's anywhere near as good as they claim, but you should be able to at least ask for directions and maybe do minor small talk once you're done. Maybe A1 or A2 level, possibly slightly higher if combined with other methods. Kind of advanced grammar as you progress, but really limited vocabulary. Sometimes free through local libraries.
    • Bluebird - A cheaper off-brand Pimsleur with more languages and more content. Most/all of the audio seems to be native speakers, but the lessons themselves are autogenerated. May be a turn-off to some people.
    • Falou - This one tries to be too many things at once, IMO. But the speech recognition is pretty good and there are hands-free audio lessons to listen to while you cook, etc.
    • Embark - App from the LDS church. 100% free, but does require sign up with the church with a "valid" email address. Does not require church membership. Aimed at giving LDS missionaries a foundation in a language before going to their language school/heading abroad, many of the early lessons focus on religious matters. You can skip these and go straight to things like "how much is this shirt?" and "where is the train station?"
    A2 - This is where it starts to get challenging. You understand some things, but not enough to have a "real" conversation. Consuming media is challenging.
    • Beelinguapp - A reading app. It's very cartoony and seems aimed at kids, but it does have a lot of content for grown-ups. Content has different difficulties, scored A1 to C2. I'm not sure if they actually have content for all levels, though.
    • Readle - German language only. "Recent" news from A1 to C1. Some free content, mostly paid. Right now, I see it as 45€/year or 10€/mo. I think it's different in USD.
    • SmarterGerman - I think this used to be $100 per level, now it's $300. From what I've seen, it seems like it's worth it. Discounts available if you buy bundles of multiple levels.
    • Destinos - A telenovela for Spanish-learners. There are related workbooks to go along with the series, but you can just watch it. Utilizes Spanish from multiple regions, on purpose.
    • English Grammar for Students of... Great book series. Very useful whether you love grammar or hate it.
    • Chatterbug - App, not website. App has access to free pre-recorded video lessons. Many of them are under 5 minutes, so you can watch one while you are... otherwise occupied in the restroom.
    • Nature Method (or Natural Method) books - You learn a language by reading text in that language. Starts very simple, but progresses to at least A2 or B1, depending on the exact series. A few more languages here.

    More to come later...
     
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  2. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    Hello!

    • Enroll in an ultra-cheap propio like the ETSINE / Unidema and use this to deepen your knowledge - works if you have already some basic knowledge of Spanish or speak French / Latin / Romanian
    • Enroll in any ENEB Course. You will get a free Spanish for business course, and you can then use this knowledge to get a cheap Spanish titulo propio... no, wait...

    Best regards,
    Mac Juli
     
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  3. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    ...
    And I dunno if this works for everyone - I know a guy who claims he did that - but maybe you can take a cheap course Spanish / other language (there are many here: https://www.formacionegs.com/categorias/1062-idiomas) and work your way backwards?
    Maybe I'll try that
    ...
     
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  4. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    I also recommend Headstart2: it's about 100 hours of language learning in a couple dozen languages including some less common ones. It will get you to A1 on the CEFR scale, which is basic survival. It's free: https://hs2.dliflc.edu/

    The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) and Defense Language Institute (DLI) courses from the 60s-80s are free online. They are not designed for self-study but they are extremely rigorous and they will drill into your head the knowledge you need to know. You can find a lot of those courses here: https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/fsi.html for FSI and https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/dli.html for DLI courses. Many people swear by these. You want the "Basic" course. In this case, Basic means B2/C1.
     
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Telenovela? I used to watch "Telenovela" starring Eva Longoria Bastón. Not to learn Spanish - just to see Eva. It was an absolutely terrible show - but I'm still an Eva fan, regardless - been one since 2004 and always will be. And I think her husband, José, is the coolest guy on the planet. She chose well. I try to dress like José sometimes - that's as close as I'll ever get to being that cool. :)
     
  6. Suss

    Suss Member

    Why do you no longer recommend Duolingo?
     
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  7. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Not who you asked but Duolingo has gradually been destroyed in the aim of making money.

    They took away the discussion boards, the hearts, the crowd-sourced translations, and other features that made Duolingo useful.
     
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  8. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    Exactly. It used to be that you could get to A1 or A2 with at least some languages. Spanish and French approached B1 levels, at the very least. They were really, really good. I leaned on DL heavily to support my language class when I was studying for an A1 exam for a different language.

    Now, literally everything that made it great has been taken away or completely locked behind a paywall. Hearts exist, but you can no longer watch ads to refill your hearts. You have to pay actual money. (Incidentally, there are a few countries where you're allowed to use DL, but you are not allowed to subscribe at all. So, they've effectively locked entire countries, like India, out of language learning entirely.) You cannot choose your topics at all. Everyone gets a linear system. If you want to refresh the topic "at the store" because you're traveling tomorrow and need a memory boost, too bad. Nothing is labeled now. Even if you find it, the topic is going to be mixed in with other topics like "asparagus" or "animals", making it less useful to refresh. Absolutely nothing about the app is to support language learning now. It's all about squeezing as much money out of users as possible. Considering the app is also aimed at children, I find that more than a bit distasteful.

    They have strayed very far from their "language learning for everyone" model and they have refused to acknowledge any criticism regarding what they've done. There was one "unofficial" response from someone that amounted to "our KPIs show that the path is the best, sucks to be you if it doesn't work!" Well, I'm sorry, but your KPIs are wrong, Duolingo.
     
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  9. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    Back to suggested resources!

    A1
    • Lingopolo - Aims to stay closer to Duolingo's original mission of open language learning for everyone. It's still growing, and the UI isn't the best, but it seems like it could really be something.
    A2
    B1+ - It's really, really hard to find resources once you've gotten past A2. Things tend to be too easy, too hard, or way too boring.
    • LanguageCrush - Turn literally any text into flashcards/study. Can be confusing at first, but it's pretty powerful. Pair with public domain texts from Project Gutenberg, etc., or foreign news articles. Set the modern articles "private" and not public, because of potential copyright issues.
    • Kwiziq - I've heard really, really good things about this. I just wish it was for more languages than just French and Spanish. This one claims to get you up to C1 level, and from what I heard that is probably accurate, but I'm putting it at B1+ just in case.
    • If you're a gamer, you can start playing video games and understanding most of what's going on. The PC Gaming Wiki has a resource to help you find games you might want to play.
    • LyricsTraining and/or LingoClip - I'm not sure if LingoClip is a rebrand or completely different app from the same people as LyricsTraining. Learn languages by listening to songs. Very frustrating if you're a pure beginner. You can definitely listen to music at any level, but doing either of these requires a solid foundation of at least A2, IMO.
    • Coursera, in general - Can be hard to find, because Coursera's search functions are sorely lacking, but there are a lot of foreign-language courses, certificates, and specializations available on Coursera. For instance "Cómo hablar bien en público" from the Universitat Autònoma de Barcelona or "A la recherche du Grand Paris" from SciencesPro.
    I realize I probably should've put "Destinos", "Readle", and "SmarterGerman" in their own language-specific sections. Oh well!

    Spanish:
    • Dreaming Spanish - An exceptional resource for learning the language and actually understanding it. From the reviews I've seen, this has the ability to get one to B1 or B2, at the very least. Speaking not included.
    • Notes in Spanish - A podcast to teach you "real" Spanish and not just Spanish found in textbooks. Cannot vouch for efficacy.
    • UC Davis on Coursera - Seems roughly equal to 1-2 semesters of Spanish 101/102. Included in Coursera Plus, if you're a subscriber.
    • Spanish for Healthcare Workers from Rice University - Also on Coursera. Also included with Coursera Plus.
    • SpanishVIP - Very inexpensive tutoring or group classes in Spanish.
    • Spanish for Beginners at iversity - They want to charge you for a "verified certificate", but the course contents themselves are 100% free. iversity also has a handful of free courses taught entirely in Spanish (and some other languages).
     
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  10. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    Even better organized than yojik.eu is https://www.livelingua.com/project They also include Peace Corps language training, where available. Unlike the FSI/DLI materials, I think the Peace Corps stuff is geared toward complete beginners. Not sure.
     
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  11. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

  12. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Admittedly this is totally off the cuff, but my kneejerk response is to expect that what that really means is that even in Silicon Valley, you're not allowed to hemorrhage money forever.
     
  13. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    They could've done a lot more to squeeze money from people without nerfing the language learning aspect. Depending on the app, "freemium" apps can earn the developer way more money than "subscription-only" apps. Also, DUOL stock dropped in price significantly once this update started to roll out to everyone. It may be starting to rally, but it's still only at about $80 when the 52-week average looks to have been around $90.
     
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  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Fair enough. I guess I've just never understood their revenue model.
     
  15. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Originally you would complete the language course through Duolingo and then crowd-source translations for companies who would pay a small fee for the privilege. Then they took away the translations and introduced Premium and the whole thing fell apart.
     
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  16. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    The translation thing was (slightly) before my time. But I know that people were still complaining about it being taken away in 2021 or 2022 before they also locked and removed the user forums.
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Well, there's always https://cudoo.com/ 160 languages and they're cheap (and you get a cert.) but nobody here seems to like them except me. I like them because they cover unusual things, like African pidgin languages. Those are very vivid, lively and poetic.

    "Tout le monde hate me, wey I don't know pourquoi." - Cameroon.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
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  18. Suss

    Suss Member

    Thanks for Rachel and Dustin for the info. I started with them back in September 2022, learning French via a paid subscription, but then they made some changes they imposed on everyone. Those went into effect (gradually) around November 1, but there were still changes to my system as of last week. Everyone now has to proceed with their learning in a determined straight line, with no opportunity to take ourselves backward and study old lessons again, or do things on the side (like reading stories). I suppose that technically we can, but the way it's organized, how would we know where to look if there was something in particular we wanted to focus on?

    Duolingo's focus seems to be on having us earn "experience points" or "XPs" moreso than on learning the language. The video game aspect means we are assigned to a league, and advance within it by racking up XPs. Some participants earn as many as 40,000 XPs in a week, when ordinarily a working adult or school-age kid might earn 2000 to 4000 XPs in a week, 5000 if they worked really hard (hours and hours and hours). Now there's talk (Reddit, etc.) about whether people are cheating somehow or if they're relying on bots to earn their XPs for them.

    It's more stressful now, with no contact with fellow learners. We can follow them on the app, but can't communicate directly with them. I thought communication was the purpose of learning a language! And last week they finished closing down all the online and offline conversation classes. Now there's no one to practice with in person!

    Since I had been a member such a short while, I thought the stress I was feeling was just me. Your comments about Duolingo reminded me about all this.
     
  19. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    The problem with Cudoo is that they're not very rigorous. And they only provide the barest introduction to most of the languages on offer. For some languages, it may be no more than proof that the language exists, plus greetings and numbers to ten. I fear that some of them may not be very accurate. (Which makes me want to check some of the less common languages...) The pool is very wide, but not even a centimeter deep.

    I have a lot of resources that are similarly shallow. If I listed all the language resources I've come across that look interesting but aren't that useful, this forum would be turned into nothing but a language forum. ;) I do have a handful of resources for some African languages, though. I need to sort through those at some point in the future.
     
  20. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    I just went through the first four sections of Albanian on Cudoo (Introduction, Greetings of the Day, How are you?, and More Greetings), and I found the following issues:
    • Good afternoon - My books say the phrase used is more like "good day". I'll give them this one, though. Languages don't all agree on day vs. afternoon, so this can be a matter of the opinion of the teacher. Guten Tag, for German, is probably similar. It means "good day", but you don't really use it before noon.
    • How are you? - They are using the singular informal here. It's usually better to teach the formal version first, unless the formal is fading from existence. I do not know if this is the case for Albanian.
    • Nice to see you again. - This one seems to be correct, but I'm not sure why we're learning it before "Nice to meet you."
    • Nice to meet you. - Okay, the next slide is this. This is correct.
    • I'm pleased to meet you. - This is one word off from the previous phrase. Someone who didn't know better would infer that the difference is nice vs. pleased. It's not. It's meet vs. know (At least, I think so, based on what I'm seeing in my books. I can tell you that it's definitely not nice vs. pleased; that's not the word that changes.) But, despite this being a "language course", it's not doing anything aside from being a video phrase-book, so you're not learning this. Possibly a formality difference, but it doesn't tell you.
    • See you tomorrow - This appears to be accurate, though not mentioned directly in my books. No mention of formal vs. informal.
    • Speak to you soon. - Another one that appears to be accurate, without mention of formality.
    • See you later. - Not sure if this is accurate. My books use "Mirupafshim" for both "goodbye" and "see you again", but I don't see a specific "See you later." It could be fine, I just don't know. Again, possible formality issues.
    • The lesson summary for "More Greetings" inexplicably switches to Dutch instead of Albanian.
    There were a few words/phrases that were fine, like "taxi", but most of the phrases have something wrong per the sources I have available. Now, it could just be because I am a beginner and don't know the language well enough, but I'm not super impressed by the quality at all. If I get bored, I may go through the more "advanced" lessons for Spanish, German, or Italian to look for issues. I'm not fluent, but I am at least hopefully familiar with those languages to spot any issues. I'm particularly curious about the contents of the "hospitality" and "retail" German courses.
     
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