Students sue Walden University

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Studious, Dec 4, 2022.

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  1. Studious

    Studious Member

    Students sue Walden University, alleging scheme to defraud Black women

    I think what shocked me the most is this:

    "The 15,743 Black female students represent the university’s most significant demographic.

    The university boasts over 49,000 students."

    These students are nearly a third of Walden's student base! I will admit to shaking my head at the student who believed she could get a doctorate in 18 months. It can be tough to complete a master's during that time frame. Completing a doctorate usually takes an average of four to six years.
     
    RoscoeB likes this.
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Walden has been a leader in graduating Black people with the PhD for decades.

    Also for decades there's been complaints about Walden stretching out degree completion in order to collect more tuition. Similar complaints have been lodged against other schools.

    Remember, anyone can sue anyone about anything.
     
    SweetSecret likes this.
  3. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Walden gets sued almost every year. LOL.

    Walden has the highest number of Black doctoral graduates, but it doesn't have a high completion rate. In other words, the only reason why it has so many Black doctoral graduates is because they have a massive number of Black doctoral students. Half of Black doctoral students are at for-profit colleges even though for-profit colleges only make up about 10% to 18% of the market. This has long been a pattern. For-profit colleges target their marketing to Black people. The average debt for a Black doctoral student at a for-profit is $150,000. This lawsuit is about Walden dragging out the program making it far costlier than advertised, which is a common complaint at Walden and Capella. Schools like Walden target Black people for a reason, and I always try to steer Black people away from these schools.
     
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  4. Studious

    Studious Member

    I've never heard this before so I'd like to know the reason schools like Walden target Black people. What is the purpose? I'm asking because my friends and associates within this demo attended state schools or private universities. A couple even graduated from HBCUs. I've never heard anything about issues with for-profit schools targeting this population specifically.
     
  5. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    This has been a hot topic in higher education for at least the past decade.

    Black and Hispanic students are easier to recruit because they're more likely to be first generation college students who don't have college graduates around to guide them. They also tend to have lower incomes, which means qualifying for financial aid. Since for-profit colleges are not academically competitive, they don't attract a lot of people who can afford to pay out-of-pocket, and for-profits aren't as generous with scholarships and institutional grants because their shareholders come first. A lot of Black and Hispanic and economically disadvantaged people avoid applying for college because they're not aware of financial aid or don't know how to apply. For-profit colleges tend to make that process easier by guiding them through that process and will sometimes complete the FAFSA on applicants' behalf. A lot of Black, Hispanic, and economically disadvantaged students also drop out of community colleges because of the remedial courses they need to take. For-profit colleges rarely require placement exams or remedial courses, which is another thing that makes them attractive to demographics that tend to graduate from high school without being prepared for college-level coursework. Another group for-profit colleges target is disabled veterans because of their benefits and because they're another vulnerable group that's easier to lie to. University of Phoenix specifically targeted veterans with brain damage.

    When I taught at a for-profit college, which is now closed because their finance department engaged in fraud, I discovered that hardly any of the students comparison shopped. They were completely oblivious to the fact that the school they were attending was far more expensive than community colleges and even the state universities in the area. When you have no point of reference, you think it's normal to pay $30k for an associate's degree.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/for-profit-schools-target-minority-communities-student-borrower-protection-center-2021-8
     
  6. Studious

    Studious Member

    Thanks for the rundown and the link.
     
  7. ArielB

    ArielB Member

    Their TV advertising (Walden, anyway) usually features a black student or graduate.
     
  8. SweetSecret

    SweetSecret Well-Known Member

    I am surprised they actually have so many PhD students because these complaints seem to go back years. It is primarily the PhD students that are having this issue though.

    In comparing the differences in grading between the formal classes and the tempo programs, they did publish something that I think was meant for their staff that ended up online basically showing a drastic difference between the grading outcomes between the two formats. Students in the traditional Masters program online received drastically higher grades than people in the Tempo programs. I actually wonder how much of that is from the dehumanization of not having as much interaction with the students. Reading that encouraged me to utilize the transfer credit option, which the school is very generous with. They basically allowed transfer credits from any CHEA source. I think this can help offset, and it also has helped me maintain my GPA. Although even taking the cheaper classes at other schools, especially when there's drastically more work involved and grading methods that I disagree with... can be stressful. Regardless though, I will be happy with the eventual outcome.

    Hopefully the school resolves the PhD issue. They are currently a B-Corp, and if they do not get this fixed they could risk losing that... which is a definite incentive to fix it. Personally if they had been a regular for-profit school I don't think I would have even considered them.

    I definitely see how they attract low-income students though. The teaser rates are hard to beat, and had me jumping on the bandwagon for the free initial term. I had already been looking for a school that had a particular MBA concentration with business accreditation at an affordable price. The school had exactly the concentration I wanted, which they later dropped but maintained the self-designed concentration. For me, it will work out in the end, and I hope others are able to find value at least in the undergraduate and master's programs... but given the reputation I've never recommended the PhD programs to anyone.
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Walden is more than 50 years old. It's been hearing this stuff ever since then. And other than a news article now and then--that never seems to amount to anything--their reputation is just fine.
     
  10. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Hardly anyone reads higher education articles, and when no one around you is college-educated, you tend to know nothing about the reputations of colleges and universities. Plus, Black people disproportionately work in the public sector where school reputation doesn't matter.
     
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This might be right, but I have a different opinion. Almost all hiring decisions--and all promotion decisions--are made qualitatively. Minimum qualifications get you put on a list for consideration but from there on out it is the hiring manager who decides who gets hired. I have to think school reputation can enter into that decision just as easily as it can and does in the private sector. There is nothing systemic in the public sector's hiring practices that would prevent it.

    Of course, I've always considered this issue way overblown, especially on this board. There are a handful of schools with such reputations. Everyone else graduates from schools most others have never heard of. So, maybe it's not a big deal (almost) anywhere.
     
  12. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    There are the top tier schools, middle of the pack schools that someone may or may not have heard of, and then there are the schools with bad reputations. I'm not sure how many resumes get chunked in the trash because of the school; all I have is anecdotal evidence from hiring managers who've admitted to removing an applicant from consideration because of their school.
     
  13. imbanewbie

    imbanewbie New Member

    Sanantone, when you refer bad reputations, are you referring for profit university?
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Sure. And sometimes without merit.

    Graduates of the University of Phoenix suffer this. UoP is the McDonalds of higher education. Anything anyone wants to complain about gets pointed at them, while dozens of other schools doing the same thing(s) go unnoticed. I'm sure Burger King loves all the heat McDonalds takes as the archetype of fast food. And I'm sure some other for-profit schools are just fine with UoP taking all the heat.

    Walden is certainly not that. It is little-known, despite it being a pioneer in graduate education for working adults. (Not to mention Black working adults.)

    I've been affiliated with Union since 1986. I've never met anyone--outside of some very specifically oriented professional events--who's ever heard of it. No one knows and no one cares. The same with Walden.

    When I mention the University of Leicester to Americans, I get the same blank stare. But when I mention it to Brits, they all know it. On rare occasions, I'll meet someone who's been to Leicestershire. Then we talk about our favorite haunts on Granby Street. But never about details regarding the University. No one cares, even though they've all heard of it.

    I know first hand how hard UoP students work to earn their degrees. And I know that the scorn thrown on UoP cannot possibly compare to the actual learning experience. I think the same of Walden, having admired them from a distance for decades.
     
  15. Courcelles

    Courcelles Active Member

    I’d add one more category, “schools people only know of because of division 1 sports”.
     
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  16. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I think many already know what I think of for-profit schools, especially the large ones and the 2-year vocational schools. But, I'm Black, a member of multiple groups for current and aspiring Black professionals, and attended two for-profit universities, so maybe I have a different perspective. All I can do is inform people of better, cheaper universities before they fall for ads and deceptive sales pitches.

    I just saw a salesperson from a for-profit school post a deceptive sales pitch in a private, Black social media group and so many people fell for it. Fortunately, a moderator removed the post. They really go out of their way to target us. It's disgusting.
     
    Suss likes this.

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