Affordable DEAC/NCCRS NA - Bachelors in Education

I would exercise great caution when considering a bachelor's degree from a DEAC-accredited school. A lot can change from the time you make that decision and the time you need to use that degree.

 

I'm a little confused. Is the degree through Excelsior or Genesis?

 

I get the impression it’s from Genesis but they’re implying Excelsior would take the credits? Kind of strange.

 

Definitely through Genesis itself - from 2016 on. Besides Excelsior, they have similar partnerships with Charter Oak and SUNY.
You CAN transfer your credits - you don't HAVE TO, to get your degree. From the site:

"As of October 2016, students now have the opportunity to earn their degree directly from Genesis University, without the need to transfer to one of our academic partners, or in conjunction with our academic partners."

Nobody here mentioned that school's primary religious orientation appears to be Judaism - but I believe they in no way exclude students of other faiths. Here's what they say about that:

"Genesis University offers distance learning courses primarily in the areas of Religious Studies (Judaic) and Education. In the area of Judaic Studies, Genesis offers a range of Judaic Studies courses, many of which may coincide with a yeshiva or seminary curriculum. Genesis works closely with students to help them earn an accredited associate or bachelor’s degree."

So, you can
(1) earn a degree directly from Genesis
(2) Take courses for transfer credit at a partner school - if that's your preference.

We've had discussions about this school before. I like it. And I don't often say that about religious schools. This is a good deal, for the degrees offered.

 

Maybe so. But another good option, if that's your objective, would be to earn your Bachelor's in Religious Studies directly at Nations.
It's $450 a quarter - so I presume 1,800 a year. $60 a credit - same as Genesis. I don't know what Nations' transfer policies are like.

Also, Genesis teaches religion from a Judaic perspective - and Nations from a Christian one. Nations requires a declaration of agreement with certain commonly held Christian beliefs. I don't know quite what it would mean, or if Nations would consider an applicant's religious degree in an other-than-Christian faith as sufficient for entry to a Master's. Something to think about?

 

I think they SHOULD. But I don't call the shots. Nations does.

 

Not really strange at all. Genesis is DEAC accredited but their courses are recommended for credit through NCCRS which is accepted by Excelsior.

People have pitched the same sort of thing with a Penn Foster degree (typically associates) to TESU since Penn Foster, at least the last time I checked which was admittedly a while ago, was ACE recommended and TESU accepts ACE.

 

I guess I don't see the dilemma here. If Nations will admit you with a degree in a non-religious subject (they will) then why would they deny someone admission because their religious degree was in a non-Christian religion? If you're willing to adhere to their doctrinal requirement then what would the degree matter if it is in Business, Theater or Jewish Studies?

Besides, Messianic Judaism is making great progress from where it was when I was in high school watching it as a fledgling movement and I cannot imagine Nations would want to exclude folks of that persuasion.

 

I really don't see any problem either. My school? I'd admit anybody who qualified academically. Period. But it isn't my decision. Or yours. It's a religious school's, i.e. Nations'. I can't predict how any religious school will look at anything. I know problems, contradictions etc. can and do arise - lightning-quick. Religion (to me) is an inherently contentious issue, fraught with often unforeseen pitfalls. Perhaps you see it differently.

This is not the sort of thing I have any confidence to predict. YMMV.

 

I agree with what you're saying. I am just thinking that it would be a very odd position for Nations, or any religious school to take, and not for doctrinal reasons. It would just, as an administrative matter, be weird to say that you can get in with either a secular degree but not one of another religion especially if that religion didn't necessarily conflict with your own. It would still be odd but somewhat more understandable if they rejected a candidate with a degree in Pagan Studies. Even then, though, I would imagine simply affirming their doctrinal requirement would satisfy them that you've been appropriately saved prior to your arrival at their door. There's a doctrinal requirement which is made through the attestation. The degree is an academic requirement.

Either way, we're not in disagreement. And it's so hypothetical that I don't know we would ever see a test case and I'm far too lazy to email Nations and ask this hypothetical question.

That all said, if it were a serious concern one could take the NCCRS approved courses and flip them over to TESU and walk with a B.A. in Religion and probably run into no issues whatsoever all while satisfying the "Never NA" crowd.

 

Thanks. And I agree with your post - the whole thing. Another good job!

 

Also, I meant to address this initially and I got distracted. Though I take a nuanced approach to the NA/RA debate I agree fully with Rich that a bachelors degree from an NA school can be risky business.

If you're 55 and have been managing a retail store for years and knock out a Penn Foster bachelors for a little added job security then I doubt you'll run into any issues if managing retail is where you intend to stay. That's likely to check a box if the box ever comes up. You did it cheap. You did it on your time. Enjoy it!

However, who is to say that you won't get laid off next year and decide that this is the time for law school? Or that you only live once so you might as well pursue that PhD?

With an RA bachelors these avenues are likely wide open. With an NA degree? They're not necessarily closed but your options are probably fewer. Add to that not just current licensing requirements but future ones as well. Pharmacy Tech, for example, recently became a licensed profession in NYS. If this trend keeps up I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before it takes on a degree requirement as well. Your NA degree in paralegal studies may be fine today. Will it be fine tomorrow if the state bar decides it wants to license that profession?

Know your goals. Map out the likely obstacles. Proceed with eyes wide open.

 

Considering how strict New York has been, they surprisingly lack RA language for most (almost all?) of the professions (Office of the Professions) where you have to be licensed, with some exceptions. For instance, for licensing as a Psychologist it expressly states that the Doctorate has to come from an RA school if the program you studied with is located in the United States. But outside of that, with NY and other places, the trend as far as I can tell is moving away from restriction on NA degrees rather than further restricting.

Having said that, restrictions can come in other ways. For example, restrictions can come from boards that have to approve an applicant, and the state requires approval from that board before one can be licensed. Another way would be to put language under something like "approved programs" meaning that the state doesn't publicly say which specific programs they approve or don't approve but internally they keep a list of the ones they approve and all of them just happen to be RA.

 

It would be rather odd for New York to double down on RA requirements considering the NY Board of Regents is a recognized accreditor and, while literally a regional accreditor, is technically not according to the USDOE.

That aside, New York is fairly new to the "accreditation as qualification" game. For mental health counselors the requirement for CACREP is fairly new. And, even then, you'll notice that the requirement isn't strictly for CACREP. The first requirement is that hte program be registered in the State of New York as licensure qualifying. Failing that, you can submit an out of state program for equivalency if it is CACREP. Failing the CACREP, you can submit your transcripts and hope they consider it equivalent to a NYS program. UBuffalo, incidentally, has one of the only Advanced Certificates in Mental Health Counseling I have seen. It is CACREP accredited but also NYS registered as licensure qualifying and is intended for people with counseling degrees that are not licensure qualifying to remedy them so you can become an LMHC.

New York also proudly notes that their requirements for bar admission exceed the ABA requirements which is why the hybrid JD at Syracuse University doesn't qualify for the NYS Bar (not sure if COVID sending so many schools remote will change that) despite being ABA accredited.

And lastly, for state employment, the requirement is often "RA" or a school "registered with the Board of Regents" and here it is referring to New York's version of "State Approval" for a school which is separate from its accreditation scheme. There aren't that many schools that fit the registered but not accredited criteria but they do exist. Notably I recall there being a school of mortuary science that awarded associates degrees that are not accredited by a USDOE accreditor but are registered with the state and licensure qualifying. All of this to say...

Even when there's a state RA requirement, New York still carves out an exception for things they specifically approved.

 

I think they used to call it a nationally-recognized institutional accreditor or something to that effect.

That's where it seems they'll get ya if your degree isn't RA. I wouldn't be entirely shocked if they're more accommodating to a Psychology degree from a foreign school with or without a foreign credential evaluation than they would be the same degree from an NA school, and that's me looking at them in the most negative light and may not be fair but they've created the conditions for feeling that way.

I didn't know about that one. Niagara University has been offering one for a while. This needs to be much more common. And while they're at it, the barriers to becoming a Psychologist need a lot of knocking down and that's not just a NYS matter but nationwide. I'm not saying it should be easier in terms of work, it should just be far more accessible meaning more opportunities to gain the needed experience in ways that are outside of the limited avenues currently available. Plus, those opportunities need to not approach the neighborhood of medical school costs. Some of the stories you hear about what some have had to go through just to become a licensed Psychologist are heartbreaking and a perfect example of why many people in that field don't even bother.

 

I've seen them erroneously referred to as NA these days. That is obviously not the case since they don't accredit institutions nationally. It falls into a weird outlier category that really makes me wonder how evaluators treat it.

I don't know that I would count on that, to be honest. New York State is not a monolith. While the Department of Education handles the administrative aspects of licensing most professions that require licensing, a lot of discretion is given to the boards and committees that actually regulate the professions. I don't know how a board of NYS Psychologists would view an unevaluated foreign credential (I think this is actually a requirement, so it would be a non-starter) over an NA credential especially if that NA credential was licensure qualifying in another state (like California).

New York also has so many classes of license for mental health practitioners even people who seem to run into obstacles tend to find a way. Maybe the board of psychology doesn't play ball but with a little added non-degree training you might be just fine to be licensed as a psychoanalyst, a mental health counselor or a marriage and family therapist, for example. But I think you're giving New York too little credit in thinking that they just would circular file an applicant because of it being accredited by a US accreditor just not RA. I have definitely seen LMHCs in this state with Masters from ABHE and non-RA/CACREP schools. And my wife's degree was non-CACREP (the school is now but she earned it before that was really a thing that was desirable).

Mental Health Counseling, AC - Dept of Counseling, School and Educational Psychology - Graduate School of Education - University at Buffalo

Here it is. I don't have strong feelings on the requirements for psychologists save that the profession of psychology, and the tight restrictions around it, made a lot more sense before other license classes were a thing. Years ago, a social worker wasn't a therapist. Now, if therapy is your primary goal you are probably going to have an easier time geting an MSW and earning your LCSW and setting up shop all in the time it would take a typical PsyD student to complete school before they even apply for an internship. Kind of like medicine. The rules made sense at one time. Now a nurse can end run the process and get to the same goal faster, cheaper and without compromising care. So it's probably a good time to re-evaluate the profession in general and what exactly differentiates it from the other license classes. Because, honestly, in terms of practical limitations there are very few that a typical person undertaking a career in this field would encounter.[/QUOTE]

 

Yeah, that's why I admitted it may not be fair for me to say it, but the way they do things in general has made me feel that way. I'm sure not every department moves in the same fashion, but I've never had good dealings with any of the ones I've had to deal with (some were terrible, movie-worthy battles that lasted more than a year) so my view is shaped by those experiences.

The reason I questioned how they may treat an NA degree versus a foreign degree is based on the accommodating language in the guidelines for acceptance of foreign degrees in some professions with a few being specific about RA. Just to be clear, I'm referring only to those listed at the Office of the Professions here. Sorry for not mentioning that before.

Agreed 100%.

On the cert, thanks. I believed you I just knew nothing about it. Back when I was interested in learning about them there was a list online that was circulating. Then I stopped looking. I've probably missed out on a lot since then. Well, hopefully, because that would mean more programs exist to address the issue.

 

After reading this post, I'm considering helping my daughter complete a degree with Genesis U. (Her job has given their approval for this NA school). It will give her the opportunity for advancement with them. My question is if taking courses through Sophia.com meets their criteria of 30 units of UL classes. (Their required units from Genesis may meet 21 or more units of this in courses from them). Does Sophia have UL courses?

Also, it states (in their Education and Religion degree) that "Not more than 30 credits achieved through “credit-by-exam” may be used in the degree". Are Sophia credits "credit by exam"?

Has anyone here done a degree through Genesis U?

 

Sophia doesn't have UL courses. Well, it has ONE that might be considered UL; Principles of Management. Saylor has some UL courses. SDC has more. Coopersmith has some UL courses that would fit with the theme of Genesis U being a Jewish university (Jewish history, etc.). But you'd have to contact Genesis U to see if they'd accept them. Not every school that accepts ACE or NCCRS will accept any/all NCCRS.