Here We Go Again - Remote Learning

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Vonnegut, Dec 19, 2021.

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  1. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Flashback to teenaged Maniac Craniac attempting to interpret Bible prophesies...

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Alpine

    Alpine Active Member

    Post deleted..........
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2021
  3. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    I read an interesting article once about conspiracy theories in general. The author's theory was that people who hold conspiracy theories often lack pride in other areas of their life (academic/financial/employment/etc.), and the conspiracy theory validated them by giving them "hidden" knowledge that gave them a sense of self worth, compared to the people who didn't know what they did.

    Of course, this doesn't explain the many highly educated people who fall into conspiratorial thinking. But it did make me think.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2021
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  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    My definition of hell is spending eternity having to defend Velikovsky's hypotheses.
     
  5. AlK11

    AlK11 Active Member

    No you shouldn't.
     
  6. AlK11

    AlK11 Active Member

    Problem here is many conspiracy theories from a year ago ended up being true today. So are they still conspiracy theories if they end up being true?
     
  7. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    Many? Which?

    There have been some conspiracy theories from years ago that have turned out to be true. I am not aware of a list of "many" from only a year ago.
     
  8. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Which conspiracy theories?
    • The vaccine isn't made of microchips.
    • The vaccine isn't changing your DNA.
    • The vaccine isn't part of a depopulation program.
    • The virus wasn't released to hurt Trump in the election.
    • The virus didn't go away after the election.
    • The virus wasn't mutated in a lab to justify more lockdowns.
    • 5G isn't making people sick.
    • Hospitals aren't false reporting COVID deaths for money.
    • Fauci isn't working with Bill Gates.
    • Bill Gates didn't have advanced knowledge of the pandemic.
    • COVID is not a bioweapon.
    Okay, now that we've gotten those out of the way: what conspiracy theories are left?
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Which?
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Speaking of that data, there is a Statista chart that breaks down death totals per age group:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/

    They are roughly close to what's been reported by other sources up to mid-December. 50 and over is very, very bad. You could add up all of the deaths from 0-49 and still not come anywhere close to groups starting at 50 and over. Not super surprising though, because you're more likely to have other conditions as you age, and we know now how much influence that can have in this situation, still sucks regardless.

    As a sidenote, it looks like Statista's system is now being used by many universities and libraries around the world. I wasn't aware of it until I looked into it recently, and it's something to see how they've gone from obscure to prominent. I'm sure their rise hasn't happened overnight, but there was a time not long ago where everybody seemed wary of using them.

    With regard to groups, one of the things that's concerned me a lot is kids who've accidentally received adult doses of the covid vaccine. But that's definitely something to be as vigilant as humanly possible about preventing as it can actually be really dangerous:

    “If you give a full adult dose of [a drug] to a very small child, their liver or kidneys may not be able to manage that full dose..."
    - Dr. Stanley Spinner, chief medical officer at Texas Children’s Hospital on covid-19 vaccines, via NBC News, Nov. 8, 2021.
     
  12. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Yes, Quantic and I believe Eastern both provide Statista access to students. I think the major concern with them in the past was that they hide the full source of data to non-premium users, so it makes it hard to trust that the data is accurate or relevant even if it looks like it at first glance.

    That line is misleading in light of the rest of the sentence: "If you give a full adult dose of [a drug] to a very small child, their liver or kidneys may not be able to manage that full dose,” he said. “But vaccines are inducing an immune response. So it doesn’t matter what your weight is. It’s really based on the immune response and that is more age-related."

    While no vaccine comes without side effects this is a lot different. And children were included in the trial with larger doses without adverse effects. (https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/covid-19-vaccine-adult-dose-child/85-4d80f139-c859-469b-a016-9011dc51df07)

     
  13. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Totally disagree that anything was misleading, at least not from me. The entire part has to be looked at to understand the context, and errors have to be spotted in what was said as well, that's key:

    Why is the vaccine based on a child's age?

    Many parents are used to giving medication based on their child's weight. Why does a tiny 5-year-old get the same vaccine dose as a much bigger 11-year-old?

    “Medicines work differently than vaccines,” explained Dr. Stanley Spinner, chief medical officer at Texas Children’s Hospital.

    “If you give a full adult dose of [a drug] to a very small child, their liver or kidneys may not be able to manage that full dose,” he said. “But vaccines are inducing an immune response. So it doesn’t matter what your weight is. It’s really based on the immune response and that is more age-related.”


    The context of that part spotlights the covid vaccines, we know that from the heading alone. The Doctor was making it clear that immune response is the concern here rather than weight as with other types of approaches. He used a broad example that would (or at least should) include the covid vaccines since--as I'll point out in a moment--they relate which speaks to my earlier post. However, he made an error in attempting to differentiate between a drug, a vaccine, and a medicine. To start, vaccines are drugs:

    Monitoring of Safety and Effectiveness

    It is important to note that a vaccine is a drug. Like any drug, vaccines have benefits and risks, and even when highly effective, no vaccine is 100 percent effective in preventing disease or 100 percent safe in all individuals.

    SOURCE: FDA, "Vaccine Development - 101" under "FDA Oversight Continues After Approval", https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/development-approval-process-cber/vaccine-development-101

    Vaccines are also medicines:

    What is a vaccine, and how do vaccines work?

    A vaccine is a type of medicine
    that trains the body’s immune system so that it can fight a disease it has not come into contact with before. Vaccines are designed to prevent disease, rather than treat a disease once you have caught it.

    SOURCE: University of Oxford, Vaccine Knowledge Project, Centre for Clinical Vaccinology and Tropical Medicine, Churchill Hospital, https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/how-do-vaccines-work

    A children's dose of any vaccine, including this one, is developed and intended to be given at a specific dosage level for a reason. I think we can all agree that should be adhered to, and that should be the case regardless of what a pharmaceutical developer claims from their trials because that hasn't always proven reliable or even truthful, especially when we're talking about a company like Pfizer of all entities:

    https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=pfizer&order=pen_year&sort=desc
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
  14. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    You're jumping all over the place. A vaccine is a medicine, nobody is disputing that. You explicitly brought up the adult dose being given to children as "really dangerous" with no evidence. I countered with a source suggesting it was no more dangerous than the child dose. Pfizer's government fines (many of which are for promoting off-label use or environmental pollution) are irrelevant to the safety of the COVID vaccine, which is what's under discussion.
     
  15. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I'm not doing anything of the sort, actually.

    You're missing the point. The Doctor did in fact literally attempt a differentiation. It's written clearly and unmistakably in the quotes. He said them, I just reposted them.

    Because an adult dose of any medication given to a child could be. There's a reason for dosage differences, it's not just for show.

    That doesn't follow logic. The Doctor in that article clearly stated the danger--with specifics of what can happen--when an adult dose of a drug is given to a child. It also doesn't require much of any research to know that dosages for children and adults for many medicines are different in amounts. Why do you think that is? I think it's for safety reasons to avoid exactly the types of issues the Doctor described.

    You're reaching really hard there for something that's obviously the wrong thing to do. If you believe it's okay to do this with this one medicine based on the word of Pfizer, so be it. I'm just going to keep making complete and total logical sense by saying children should only be getting the children's dosage of any medication they're going to take where a children's dosage is specified and recommended.

    And I countered by pointing out that Pfizer's history of not being truthful complete with criminal penalties/fines (many of which are for making false claims) is an undeniably relevant thing to consider when taking in any information they impart. It would be one thing if it happened once, but it's happened so many times that it would be incredibly naive to fully trust their word on this or any other pharmaceutical they produce. And more than that, when it comes to children the caution meter should absolutely go up even higher.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
  16. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Fact. After all, Gibraltar has been reported as 100% vaccinated and still had an outbreak. That should've been the big wake up call for the entire world, particularly in countries like the United States that have descended into a dark pit of pseudoscience by not recognizing natural immunity (more on that below). There have also been smaller group examples like the California Football team that was at 99% vaccination including a highly vaccinated surrounding area, and yet still had a outbreak. Then there is Israel and Singapore both of which are highly vaxxed and still ran into outbreak issues.

    But reality is slowly setting in. Last month this article was posted:

    "CDC shifts pandemic goals away from reaching herd immunity"
    https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-11-12/cdc-shifts-pandemic-goals-away-from-reaching-herd-immunity

    A number of scientists had already made similar claims long before that article, and not because of "the unvaccinated" but because of the nature of the situation, it's only now that they're gradually being taken seriously (because the data and their outcomes can no longer be denied) and aren't being censored and de-platformed for saying it. Well, they still are being censored just not as ferociously as before anyway.

    Here is what Doctor Rochelle Walensky, Director of the CDC said on CNN, August 5th, 2021:

    "Our vaccines are working exceptionally well," Walensky told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death -- they prevent it. But what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission."

    SOURCE:
    "Fully vaccinated people who get a Covid-19 breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC chief says"
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/05/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

    That is a major shift from her statement a few months before:

    "We’re vaccinating so very fast, our data from the CDC today suggests, you know, that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don’t get sick, and that it’s not just in the clinical trials but it’s also in real world data.”

    SOURCE:
    The Rachel Maddow Show, 3/29/2021
    https://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/transcript-rachel-maddow-show-3-29-21-n1262442

    That's a critical piece because some top virologists disputed that claim immediately when she said it and there was a bit of a ruckus over it. In fairness, she wasn't the only one to say it as it was said by media and government (and just-as-respected) medical officials from around the time the vaccine rolled out until the day the claim was finally corralled for good by qualified Doctors and Scientists back in April.

    Unfortunately, both sickness and death do happen to those vaccinated for covid-19 as we've seen in the recent surges in highly vaxxed nations. Here in the U.S., it's not publicized much, but one that got through was of Marc Pilcher:

    "Marc Pilcher, the award-winning hair stylist and makeup designer who won an Emmy for his work on the hit Netflix show "Bridgerton," has died of Covid-19 at the age of 53, weeks after winning the award."

    "According to the statement, Pilcher was "double vaccinated" and had no underlying health conditions."

    SOURCE:
    Marc Pilcher, 'Bridgerton' Emmy winner, dies age 53 of Covid-19
    https://www.cnn.com/style/article/marc-pilcher-bridgerton-intl-scli/index.html

    We have to remember it's been estimated that over 100 million Americans have been infected with covid-19. According to research posted by highly credible sources like the British Medical Journal:

    "Vaccinating people who have had covid-19: why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?"
    "The US CDC estimates that SARS-CoV-2 has infected more than 100 million Americans, and evidence is mounting that natural immunity is at least as protective as vaccination."
    https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101

    "Covid-19: Fully vaccinated people can carry as much delta virus as unvaccinated people, data indicate"
    https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074

    The University of California-Davis:

    "Viral Loads Similar Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated People"
    https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people

    The Science Journal:

    "Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine"
    https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

    And the NIH months earlier:

    "Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19"
    https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

    ... not following the tried-and-true multi-generationally proven science of natural immunity is unconscionable just by itself alone, but also because of what's being done to innocent, healthy people in the absence of doing so. What we need to be doing is truly following the science and not just testing for the proper antibodies that most likely have, but properly recognizing them as some other countries are doing. The Dutch government for example, recognizes natural immunity and even has a certificate for it. Some time ago, they extended that natural immunity certificate from 180 days to 365:

    https://www.eerstekamer.nl/behandeling/20211102/brief_van_de_minister_van_vws_ter

    This should be done instead of the irrational and objectively science-denying approach of ostracizing, de facto forcing vaccination and threatening the livelihoods of healthy innocent people, creating a second-class citizenry and furthering an unnecessary divide in a nation already divided enough before all of this.
     
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  17. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    You're deliberately conflating all types of medicine - from chemo drugs to antibiotics - while ignoring the specific clarification by the doctor that vaccines have a different mechanism of action that changes the relevance of the dose, in order to make your point. If the whole sentence made the point you're insisting it does you wouldn't have needed to cut that part out. It speaks for itself, so we'll have to agree to disagree at this point.
     
  18. Alpine

    Alpine Active Member

    As a side note, the COVID vaccine pediatric dose is administered in the deltoid muscle which is very small on many 5-year-olds. Not sure why they won't allow us to administer the dose in the VL or GM site??
     
  19. Asymptote

    Asymptote Active Member

  20. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    Which vaccine or jurisdiction is requiring pediatric doses to be administered in the deltoid muscle? It’s certainly not in many places I’m familiar with.
     
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