Dr...for a professional degree?

Do you have any evidence to support this? My understanding is that a Ph.D. in Sociology or a related field was the typical degree for criminal justice faculty. Today, there are quite a lot of criminal justice Ph.D. programs and a decent amount in criminology. So, the typical qualification for a CJ faculty position is a Ph.D. in CJ, criminology, or a related field. Criminology faculty positions are often advertised as Criminology or Sociology and Criminology. In either case, a Ph.D. in Sociology or Criminology is listed, rarely criminal justice.

 

As this article explains, in 2005, ACJS required that 90% of faculty have a PhD in CCJ (short for criminology and criminal justice) or a closely-related field for graduate certification. This led to fewer JDs being hired.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10511250701383368

 

This was a good read. I have to side with ACJS despite the author's argument that there is discrimination against the J.D. I cannot agree with a J.D. teaching courses like juvenile delinquency, corrections, police administration, law enforcement, community relations, or even research methods. I can understand a J.D. with a master’s in criminal justice teaching up to the master's level. Indian University Bloomington has an opening, and they made it clear that a law degree, including J.D., LL.M., or JSD, will not be considered.

 

From what I have read, the MDiv use to be a BDiv but they wanted to recruit more students at the graduate level instead of a post-bachelors level which is why they changed it. It is also the same reason why a law degree which required a bachelors before entry became a JD because of the number of additional years required after a first bachelors degree and to increase enrollment. I suspect the Masters of Arts in Teaching was created to prevent students from having to complete a second Bachelors degree and provide an incentive for not only a higher degree but pay increases. Teachers are not eligible for pay increase based on education with a second bachelors here in the US.

 

A second bachelor's degree shouldn't be needed. There are post-baccalaureate and graduate certificates for teaching. I know that one can receive higher pay by earning a master's or doctorate, but that's a separate issue from switching careers. As for these other professions that used to only require a 5-year bachelor's degree, these could have been turned into one or two-year master's programs. For the life of me, I do not understand why there's the MDiv (an extremely long master's degree), ThM (a master's degree that typically requires an MDiv), and doctoral degrees in ministry and theology. You can go from the MDiv to a doctoral program, but some earn the ThM first. This is overkill for studying the Bible. It isn't rocket science.

 

Or even science. Or history. Or even original.

 

From what I have read, the MDiv use to be a BDiv but they wanted to recruit more students at the graduate level instead of a post-bachelors level which is why they changed it. It is also the same reason why a law degree which required a bachelors before entry became a JD because of the number of additional years required after a first bachelors degree and to increase enrollment. I suspect the Masters of Arts in Teaching was created to prevent students from having to complete a second Bachelors degree and provide an incentive for not only a higher degree but pay increases. Teachers are not eligible for pay increase based on education with a second bachelors here in the US.

 

Well, it IS a D.Div. My late Rabbi (of blessed memory) had an honorary D.D. degree. He wore a white gown with the doctoral velvet sleeve stripes and facing but entirely in white. I have never seen such a thing before or since. He wore the gown but never referred to himself as "Doctor". BTW, The late "Dr." Billy Graham's sole theology degree was an honorary D.D. I understand. Not just his only doctorate; his only theology degree at ANY level.

 

Just to make sure I understand, the MDiv is the terminal degree in the practice of ministry? With the Doctor of Divinity (DD) being mostly honorary. And then the MTh and ThD are the Masters and Doctorate in Theology, which is a different field than Ministry.

Can you go from an MDiv to a ThD? Are there earned Doctors of Divinity? When we talk about Reverend Doctors do they usually hold a ThD?

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

No, there is an earned D.Min, which is a Doctor of Ministry. D.D. is almost always honorary these days, though.

 

MDiv is the entry degree for many denominations and to become a chaplain in the military. The DMin is a professional doctorate; the ThD is a research doctorate.

 

In the UK and other European commonwealth nations that participated in the Protestant Reformation, the BDiv (as well as the ThB) is the standard degree for those who would seek ordination. Within the US, there is a standardized general education requirement built into most undergraduate degrees that does not exist in the UK and elsewhere. The BDiv is the MDiv as it relates to coursework (not course requirements as the MDiv is typically far more involved), but the BDiv is not akin to, say, a BS or BA since it lacks general education coursework. Thus, within the US, the 90 credit MDiv is the standard degree for those pursuing vocational ministry owing to the emphasis on multidisciplinary undergraduate coursework. Nowadays, those who earn an undergraduate degree from a Bible college or Christian liberal arts university in Bible or theology can receive advanced standing for an MDiv (e.g., TEDS, SBTS). Perhaps more interesting to me are the 5 year BA/MDiv programs that are popping up more frequently.

 

"BTW, The late "Dr." Billy Graham's sole theology degree was an honorary D.D. I understand. Not just his only doctorate; his only theology degree at ANY level."

I believe Graham's first earned degree was a Bachelor of theology, Florida Bible Institute, 1940.

 

Yes. Bachelor of Theology from FBI (now Trinity College of the Bible) and a Bachelor's in Anthropology from Wheaton (very well regarded school).

Billy Graham was an evangelist and all around phenomenon but not a theologian.

He did at least have an undergraduate theology degree. Guys like Joel Osteen and Creflo Dollar both have degrees but not in theology (Osteen's is in Communications and Dollar's may have been in Business). If I recall correctly, TD Jakes only accredited degree is a Community College degree. The problem with that is similar to all of the Bubba types who have become Vaccine (or actually anti Vaccine) experts. They hold forth on a subject they have little to no expertise in and don't know what they don't know. They can regurgitate portions of scripture but don't understand context and other issues and connections.

 

Other "European commonwealth nations"? Do you mean Cyprus and Malta? I did not know that...

That is unquestionably true.
However, in my opinion, the main purpose of a degree is the certification of a person's knowledge by a generally recognized institution (an accredited university or college). I think we agree that there should be alternative ways to get this kind of recognition.

The habilitation is, of course, a German qualification, and as a German I would say: Anyone with the degree of doctor can and maybe also should be called a doctor. Someone with a habilitation is called "Privatdozent" in the German system.

I could not agree more. I think there are two closely related but nevertheless different things here. The first thing is the academic title itself and the second one is the qualification that this title represents. A Mexican doctorado and an American PhD represent the same qualification. A Doctor of Social Science, on the other hand, is "only" an equivalent degree. That's very close, but it is not the same.

 

Which is why I do not say I have a PhD from Leicester. As we both point out, there is already a term used in English for my degree.

I sat on a committee once with a person with a geshe designation. The university accepted it as being what amounted to a doctorate in that (Buddhist) system. I would have no problem with such a person "translating" it into "PhD," just as I don't with doctorado. But I feel using "PhD" instead of the actual doctoral title issued from an English-speaking system is a bit deceptive. How much? As much as the person is trying to gain from it, if anything. At a minimum, however, it is lazy and inaccurate, and I would expect it in only the most informal (and oral) situations.

 

Just for curiosity. Dustin, then which titles will be called for a Pharmacist pursuing his master's and doctorate levels in this trajectory in North America?

 

Pharmacists, even ones who earn a DPharm to enter the profession, do not use the title "doctor." As I've contended before, that term is a reflection of one's standing in one's profession, and theirs doesn't use it. (Like lawyers who have the JD do not.) It's not the degree; it's the professional designation.

Nurses are at a crossroads with this because of the development of both the nurse practitioner field and the degree required to enter it. Originally, it required a master's to become an NP--this is how my wife did it. But now we've seen the rise of the doctor of nursing practice arise as the entry point. It is structured like a first professional degree (as opposed to, say, a PhD in nursing), but it is not universally required. And nurses--even those with a DNP--are not normally called "doctor" in the workplace, except casually and by mistake. But the lines here are blurred and shifting, so it's hard to nail it down.