PHD/DBA Programs in S. Africa or beyond?

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by PHDSeeker, Aug 28, 2019.

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  1. PHDSeeker

    PHDSeeker New Member

    Sorry about the dual posting as the message I entered timed out.

    I am a mid-career professional looking to potentially get my PHD in Business Administration, Organizational Development, or Organizational Psychology and I am targeting South African universities. I am based in the US and I am looking for ideally AACSB accredited doctoral programs that are part time and online or limited residency as I cannot quit my job and must work full time. Additionally, I am self funded and don't wish to increase my already considerable student loan debt. Most AACSB accredited doctoral (PHD and mostly DBA) programs in the USA especially and even in Britain are quite expensive at least $50k on up to $100. Consequently, I am targeting AACSB schools in South Africa which are very affordable and roughly $5000-10K for the entire program.

    So far, I have looked at Univ. of Witwatersrand, Stellenbosch, and Univ. of Capetown. Wits and Cape Town both seem to require fairly frequent travel which would be very difficult from the USA. Stellenbosch did not seem to require travel to S. Africa *but* they do require a research Master's degree for the research PHD in Business. This is rather hard to do if you have an MBA as most MBA programs in the US are not research oriented. I asked if I could do the MBA research module at Stellenbosch or another university like Heriot Watt/Edinburgh Business School in Scotland, but, this is not currently an option. My contact did say she is looking at trying to allow students to take the research module at Stellenbosch until 2020.

    So, this seems to leave UNISA as the only viable option in S. Africa. I am wondering if anyone knows of any other lower cost research based Business PHD programs that are AACSB accredited in S. Africa, the UK, Australia, or other English speaking programs?

    Thanks,

    PHDSeeker
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You did not discuss WHY you wish to pursue a doctorate. This matters in anyone's advice regarding potential schools/programs to consider. This is particularly true when you are seriously considering earning a doctorate from a school outside the US. Otherwise, you're just asking people to identify schools for you, something you can do for yourself quite easily.
     
  3. PHDSeeker

    PHDSeeker New Member

    Rich,

    I am looking to pursue a doctorate for a couple of potential reasons:

    1) option to teach full time at a university hence need for AACSB accreditation
    2) deepen my subject matter expertise and gain credential in business field of Organizational Development, Leadership, Employee Learning, Executive Coaching
    3) teach part time adjunct

    I have done extensive research on identifying schools going through the AACSB website. It does not have to be AACSB and may not be as I am self-funding and prefer not to deepen my student loan debt. I am looking to keep costs down as I am self-employed, being a full time graduate student is not an option, and I cannot quit my job as I am the primary wage earner in my family.

    I am asking for you or other's opinion on good PHD Business programs that you have heard of or have personal experience with in your own life. I don't mind doing the research, but, I am running up against a wall in indentifying programs. I appreciate the consideration if people cannot or choose not to help either way.

    Thank you.

    PHD Seeker.
     
  4. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Okay . . . Grab a cup of coffee (unless you’re Mormon), sit back, relax, and allow me to give you a reality check or two. Or three. But first, let me welcome you to DegreeInfo – you’ve come to the right place.

    First, if you intend to get a Ph.D., learn the proper way of abbreviating the degree – which is not “PHD.” If you do it the way you did in your post, then epect your résumé to be tossed into the trash without the reader going any further. Petty? Not at all – writing skills (including abbreviation skills) are the single most important thing to master if you want your applications read.

    Second, especially if you already have an M.B.A., do a benefit-risk analysis and an ROI projection on earning a doctorate, both in terms of your self-funded money and your time. (If you don’t know what ROI is, you shouldn’t pursue this any further than you already have. Patronizing? Yep, that’d be me.)

    Next – and you have obviously not done this – don’t be lazy. See the search box at the top right of this screen? Use it. There has been a multitude of inquiries exactly like yours – search out some of the older threads that have asked the same question, and read them. Also read some of the threads in which I, among a few, have called doctorate degrees in organizational management and leadership bullshit degrees. And a doctorate in organizational psychology will be useless unless you happen to be a psychologist, since schools will generally give preference to those who hold licensure in that field. I acknowledge that these are among the most popular majors today at both the undergraduate and graduate levels, but the result of that is an overabundance of people who have those degrees. The world of academe is highly competitive, and unless you already have teaching experience at the college level or higher, you do not stand a snowball’s chance in the proverbial lake of fire and brimstone at finding a teaching position, full time or adjunct. There’s way too much competition out there for a novice to get anything in this field.

    Next, recognize that there is a lot of educational snobbism with regard to foreign programs. The South African programs you mentioned are all credible, but they’re also all foreign. Ditto programs in any country other than the U.S. And for every foreign program graduate who applies for an advertised teaching position, especially if he or she has no teaching experience, there will be at least a hundred graduates from U.S. programs that will be given preference. (The same can be said about for-profit schools, even when they’re based in the U.S.)

    When it comes to getting initial teaching positions, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know. Even then, you need to have solid pedagogical skills. If you don’t know what pedagogical means, you’re not ready to be a teacher. In the meantime, if you already have an M.B.A., you already have a credential that is adequate for teaching at the community college level. Which thus leaves open the question, can you even teach, or are you just in fantasyland?

    In short, consider all of these things before you enroll in any program, or your future posts here could be in the washout thread. And whether you’re talking about $5,000 or $100,000 in tuition, either amount could be a waste.

    Now relax again, take a breath, and take your time to get lots more information before you make a move.
     
  5. PHDSeeker

    PHDSeeker New Member

    Steve (and everyone else),

    Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. Your candor provides useful feedback and I will duly note the proper spelling of Ph.D (my bad as I was typing at 2 am). I have thought about and I am weighing all of the points that you have made especially about the utility and cost (time, monetary, emotional, etc.) vs. benefit of getting a Ph.D. I actually have taught adjunct Business classes at several schcools with my MBA.

    With regards to your point about using the "Search" box to get answers that have already been posted, I have used this search feature multiple times with mixed results. While I have seen some posts about UNISA, I have not seen many about other PHD/DBA programs in Business in S. Africa or other countries (aside from US). Additionally, I have spent the last 6 months to 1 year (or more) conducting research on Google or other boards so I have spent considerable effort trying to obtain information to make an informed decision. If I am not correctly using the keyword search feature here on Degree Info, would you mind providing some guidance on the proper keywords to use? For example, I have conducted searches using keywords including "UNISA", "South Africa", "PHD/DBA", and I have only some of the answers I am looking for in my search. I have run into the following block in not being able to find Business PHD programs in S. Africa (or other foreign countries) that meet the following criteria: AACSB accredited, do not require trips to S. Africa (hard to do from the US), and are relatively inexpensive. I am not sure if any exist. It would seem that the only option in S. Africa which meets some of these requirements is UNISA.

    Can you please point me to the posts you have made previously? I truly want to know the content of them and I have been unable to find them. I am not familar with this board or all of the search features and I am trying to come up to speed.

    My methodology has also been to go to the AACSB website and search for member schools. Then, I look at each of the individual schools and their requirements. However, I do not know very much about non-US PHD programs in other countries so I am requesting other board member's opinions/knowledge.

    I would like to make an observation. I can appreciate how it must be frustrating for new board members to ask questions you already took the time to provide thoughtful answers for in the past. I can also appreciate how you would be annoyed by new member's questions if they are not willing to do the work of searching. Some of your responses come off as kind of unwelcoming, unhelpful, and rude. It would seem the spirit of these boards is to provide useful information in a welcoming environment...not being patronizing or snarky. Some of your responses are not very helpful for new members and may make them hesitant to want to participate or provide useful information they have discovered. I do not mean any disrespect by this comment.

    I want to thank in advance those members who choose to reply to my comment.

    Thanks,

    PHDSeeker
     
  6. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    PhDSeeker.

    If you want to teach Organizational Psychology, I agree with Steve that a PhD in BA in Leadership or Organization Behaviour from a foreign school in Africa would not be very useful for getting a full time faculty position.

    Schools normally advertise that require a PhD from an AACSB accredited school but meeting the minimum requirement does not automatically gives you the job. As Steve mentioned, there are many people with local qualifications that would be preferred over a person from a foreign African school.

    The first issue is that people would wonder why an American has a PhD from an African school. It is not common for a US resident to register in an African School. The obvious conclusion is that it is a distance degree and this would automatically ruled you out for most traditional schools that have a bias against distance degrees.

    This degree could be a good option if you are interested in adjunct teaching, consulting, career change or dressing in a resume.

    You will find some people working as full time faculty in the US with South African Degrees but many times these individuals are originally from South Africa and worked they way up to a faculty position or are very experienced faculty members that just needed a check mark to get a job. Also, many of these individuals got these jobs many years ago when there was way less competition.

    I would look for a more traditional option from a local school even if it is not AACSB accredited schools. I have met some faculty members with degrees from Saybrook University in San Francisco that have degrees in Leadership, Psychology, etc. Again, not because some people got jobs in the past with a degree from this school it means that you can get a job but perhaps it is a mid risk instead of a high risk option like the South African degree.
     
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  8. PHDSeeker

    PHDSeeker New Member

    RFValve,

    Great points. Thanks for the helpful input. You and Steve both bring up a good point about how the credibility of an African vs. US degree would be viewed by a university Business Department faculty department hiring for a preofessor. Rightly or wrongly, I can definitely see bias against a S. African Ph.D Business degree (although AACSB would probably reduce doubt). At the end of the day, I am not getting a PhD for the heck of it. I am doing it to either further my job prospects of teaching at a university level or deepen my experience in consulting (not sure a PhD is required).

    To be honest, after reading Steve's post and others posts in the past, it kind of makes me feel like why should I bother getting a PhD and the situation is kind of depressing to me. At 45, I am seriously wondering about the utility of getting a PhD. It seems like the goal of most academics is to conduct research and put up with having to potentially teach a class. I feel just the opposite. I love teaching and really don't have a lot of interest in research. I am definitely more interested in the practitioner side of Business as opposed to the academic side of research.

    In my current job as a self-employed Learning Consultant, I am an Instructional Designer and Trainer for ERP software (mainly SAP). When looking at activities I have enjoyed the most, teaching, mentoring, and coaching come to the top of the list. I am not sure if this means I should definitely or definitely not pursue a PhD. Most part time US programs are expensive and I do not have a company to provide tuition reimbursement.

    Anyway, I digress. Thank you for your input.

    PhDSeeker
     
  9. PHDSeeker

    PHDSeeker New Member

  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    PhDSeeker,

    You might qualify already with your existing credentials for teaching as an adjunct or full time position at a CC or small University. There is nothing wrong with getting a PhD from a credible school in SA if you cannot afford something else but the expectation should not be that this will give you a full time faculty job at a research University. If your goal is just to have something in your CV to get an adjunct gig or a full time job at a CC, the SA degree in my opinion could be a good option as it is dressing in a CV and not the main qualifier.

    There are people that register in schools in Nicaragua, India, etc for the same reason. The point is that you need to be aware of your options and make sure that it will not frustrate you at the end. If you read this forum, there are few people that spent a lot of money for a doctoral credential and then come to this board asking for advice on how to get an adjunct gig or a full time job.

    In few words, you cannot expect to be home in your couch doing a distance doctoral degree and magically get an offer to teach full time once you get the degree. Full time residential students spend a lot of time networking through conferences, teaching part time, networking for research, etc and this will put them ahead of any person that shows up with a doctoral credential and nothing else to sell in a CV.

    I would advise to put in your CV a PhD in progress from the SA school once you get admission into a school SA and before you start spending the money and effort, see if there is any reaction from the local market and get at least some attention for adjunct teaching gigs. If you feel that the credential is working, this will motivate you to finish it.
     
  11. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    There are DBA programs at other schools in SA. Pretoria and KZNU come to mind. Since these degrees are research-based, dissertation-only degrees, it might be worthwhile approaching the school and inquiring as to whether you could do this research at a distance. The key to success in this matter is finding a faculty member who will support (advise) your research. It's been done before.
     
  12. Ree09

    Ree09 New Member

    To the best of my knowledge, the only business schools that may have AACSB accreditation is Stellenbosch, UCT and Henley (there might be others, WITS and GIBBS, not sure). I doubt though that this extends to their doctoral level offerings. In South Africa, provided that the degree is accredited by the South African Qualifications Authority (SAQA) and the Council on Higher Education (CHE), it is a recognized and legitimate qualification. Some of the business schools may seek AACSB accreditation to set themselves apart from competitors but this in not the norm at this point in time. For the most part, universities compete based on reputation and rankings.

    The South African system at the doctoral level is research focused and does not include any course work. For this reason, I would imagine that getting acceptance into one of the universities might be challenging especially because your MBA does not have a research component (not impossible though, as you may be required to do additional work). I do not know the strength of a South African degree in the US market. It might make for sense for a South African, but I don't know how well it will translate for you. This is not to discourage you, especially because the price points are so attractive. Its just something to think about.
     
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    In many "big book" PhD programs, one is admitted at the MPhil level. After one or more years of successful research, one can have one's admission "upgraded" to the PhD.
     
  14. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  15. Bob Johnson

    Bob Johnson New Member

    Greetings!
    It has been a long time since posted here. I am grateful for the information gathered some time ago allowed me to complete my DBA in 2006. I have done quite a bit with my DBA degree and held several leadership positions in higher education and have taught for some great schools.
    Throughout my journey, I completed an Ed.D. in higher education from the University of Miami which has gone well with my non-AACSB DBA. Recently, I came across the University of Stellenbosch Business School Ph.D. in Business Management program. The University is AACSB accredited and only requires a completed dissertation. However, from my administrative days, I remember rejecting a job applicant who graduated from the University of South Africa with DBA resulting that he did not complete any graduate courses, but only completed his dissertation. Accreditors require 18 graduate courses completed in addition to the dissertation. This being the case, it is possible to complete a Ph.D. from Stellenbosh and tag along 18 graduate classes so that it appears that they were completed prior to the completion of my dissertation? Considering that the forum has had its share of experiences, I am hoping for some guidance.

    Thanks,
    Bob
     
  16. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I thought 18 credits in the subject was only required if the completed degree is not in the subject. One of my professors was from Spain, and she completed a dissertation-only doctorate in the UK. Her master's degree was not in criminal justice or a related field, but she was a tenure-track, criminal justice professor.
     
  17. Bob Johnson

    Bob Johnson New Member

    Hi, Sanantone,
    I should have been more specific. Normally seen as a requirement among business schools that are AACSB accredited or other schools that are not but pretend to be AACSB accredited.
    Thanks,
    Bob
     
  18. Marcus Aurelius

    Marcus Aurelius Active Member

    Unless something has recently changed, Stellenbosch does not offer a doctorate by distance study.
     
  19. Bob Johnson

    Bob Johnson New Member

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