Can a Degree be recalled after a Professional License is revoked

Professional license holders that have their licenses revoked for professional misconduct, should in my mind also have their academic degress pulled back.

The basis for this argument is that the issuing college/universityacademic where the degree holder earned the degree has a lot to loose also. The degree holder earned a degree for the purpose of becoming a professional in practice, hanging their diploma of the issuing institution on the wall and calling themselves for example Dr. John Doe MB.MD or John Doe MBA. CPA.

What if the degree holder lost their license for professional misconduct and when the license was revoked could also have the degree issuing institution recall the degree holders credential and diploma.

This would make John Doe. Esq a plain John, with no right to title, imagine the impact.

J.R(ic)

 

Working in the medical malpractice field as I do, I deal with a great many healthcare professionals (physicians, dentists, nurses and others) who have their license to practice temporarily suspended or permanently revoked for a variety of reasons.

One could only imagine the administrative nightmare in providing and updating this information to all the various schools and universities. Not to mention the inevitable legal challenges, costs to the system, and the lack of any real relevance of the degree to the clinician's subsequent ethical practices.

As an example, I am reminded of a client of mine who lost his license for welfare billing fraud. I am pretty confident that when he went to medical school at McGill 25 years ago, they did not teach him that such activities were ethical.

Regards,

Michael Lloyd
Mill Creek, Washington USA

 

You can't be serious

John Roberts: "The basis for this argument is that the issuing college/universityacademic where the degree holder earned the degree has a lot to loose also."

Not wishing to upset John Roberts for the sake of it, I must say this is the silliest argument he has put forward to date.

Professional misconduct has nothing to with a previous academic qualifications. On that basis any graduate of any reputable university who commits either professional misconduct or criminal offences disgraces his or her former alma mater? Come on. The world's universities would be cringing in shame for their Alumni as a fair proportion of any university's Alumni end up in jail (even gaol, John!) or deserving of it, and the process of taking back their degrees would make their alma maters' laughable. It would justify some sort of indemnity against political/religious/racial retrospective removal of degrees earned by exams (apologies to Lawrie) because the person fell foul of judicial punishment.

The person convicted of professional misconduct loses (er, not 'looses' John) his or her licence to operate in that field. They cannot in all justice lose (not 'loose' John, geddit?) their degree in sociology or whatever. Why stop there? Why not take away their school certificates, their 'good conduct' badges, even their Scouts' or Guides' badges too?

Our 'my learned friends' would welcome the challenge of prosecuting and defending the resultant cases. Why make them even richer?

And the lawyers shall inherit the Earth for they already own much of it!

 

Re: You can't be serious

I say, 'Let's stop pussyfootin' around with these half measures, let's just kill 'em.'

I'm happy to agree with Prof. Kennedy on this one. John's idea is silly. It violates the idea that the punishment should somehow "fit the crime." There's undoubtedly some legal phrasing for this (hopefully in Latin) that one of our LLM candidates might help with.
Jack

 

Re: Re: You can't be serious

.....It violates the idea that the punishment should somehow "fit the crime." There's undoubtedly some legal phrasing for this (hopefully in Latin).....

Damn!! Couldn't find that in my Gilbert and Sullivan law dictionary.

 

Profesor Kennedy is right on. A degree is a level of academic attainment whereas a professional license is a license to practice. These are completely different things. When earning a degree the college/university attests to the level of learning you have received. For a professional license a state board typically gives you a license to practice and your degree is just a qualifier to obtain the license.

John

 

Re: Re: Re: You can't be serious

Not being a fan of G & S I've found the reference to be a bit obscure. Would you elucidate?
Jack

 

The reference is to The Mikado. The Mikado and chorus sing:

My object all sublime
I shall achieve in time--
To let the punishment fit the crime--

The punishment fit the crime;

And make each prisoner pent
Unwillingly represent
A source of innocent merriment!
Of innocent merriment!

See http://math.boisestate.edu/gas/mikado/html/humane.html for more.

 

Thanks Kristin, I've always suspected that I've missed much by not being a fan of musical theatre.

Jack

 

How can you revoke a degree? Makes no sense.

 

Recalling a degree is an onerous but not impossible task. It is a two-step process. First, the student must empty his or her mind and return the knowledge gained. The second part, however, is much more difficult; the school must refund all the tuition paid.

On a more serious note, the recalling of degrees has occurred on several occasions. The typical scenario is the closing down of a degree mill by the authorities. As a result of a court order, the school must refund any tuition paid, and the problem of returning any knowledge imparted is not applicable, as none ever was. However, it is interesting to note, that in the past, only a small percentage of students typically avail themselves of the opportunity to return a bogus degree for a refund.

 

Well, degrees can be revoked if cheating or plagiarism is discovered after it was rewarded. So, in a sense, John's point is not totally out there. If the student was to sign or agree that professional misconduct, if proved, holds the same penalty as cheating or plagiarism. This would never fly, of course, because C&P are much more closely linked to the education process than morality.

Tony

 

Should the CEO & CFO of Enron after what they did..lose not only their License but also their Diploma's?

Should that Doctor that knowingly prescribed those prescription drugs that caused someone to commit a criminal act..lose his/her License and Diploma?

Should that Biomedical team of scientists (Engineers, Doctors, Lawyers and Accountants) that infringed on a patent, duped funds, killed humans (one of your family members maybe) all for the sake of research..should they also lose their Licenses and Diploma's?

I guess if the answer to anyone of these is yes..then..so be it.

Granted, knowledge learned or knowledge gained cannot be taken way, that is unless there is total brainwashing, however an act of criminal intent and harm to any human being calls for justice and for the possible revocation of that persons degree for the cases stated above..in my mind anyway.

I am not concerned with the administration of how it's done, or the fact that a degree may have been earned 20 years earlier, or the fact that they paid several thousands of dollars in tuition...simply yank the Degree.

Its a matter of protection of the public, the taking away of that to which the individual is seen as being respected by their peers, the calling of themselves a Doctor, Ph.D, MBA, BS or whatever..it gives shamfulness and to the institution that that they graduated from..academic cleansing..after all what they learned was used for bad intentions or criminal acts.

J.R(ic)

 

That being said, I suppose that I can only be grateful that you are not a Judge.
Jack

 

Can O.J lose his Heisman Trophy?

If we can recall degrees what about awards?

 

Re: Can O.J lose his Heisman Trophy?

Let him keep it (in exchange for any and all sharp objects in his possession). I noted the $100k reward offered a few years ago on "askoj.com" and thought I had it bagged. Then, however, I realized they weren't going to give it to me for turning in O.J. (damn!).

Seriously, though, what about naming stuff after human beings while they are still LIVING??? I mean, they recently named the newly constructed Cook County Hospital after the President of the Cook County Board (John Stroger). Now what happens if the guy breaks bad (or something unseemly is discovered)? Big mess, no?

 

We have a current example for this thread that degrees are not revoked for criminal activity. Clara Harris who ran over her husband with the Mercedes and received 20 years will still be a Dr. for her 20 years in prison and beyond. She just can't practice dentistry as she will lose her license because of the conviction. (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/metropolitan/1778556)


John

 

But can she still drive?

 

The interesting twist to this type of story is that at times, convicted providers are still allowed to practice in prison. I personally know of several physicians, nurses and dentists who were convicted and sent to prison in various states, the US military prison system and the Federal prison system. Some of them are still practicing during their sentence.

Generally speaking, a felony conviction will cause an automatic permanent revocation of your professional license. But not always. At times, depending upon what your conviction was for, your specialty, and the need for that specialty in providing health care, state licensing boards have granted a limited license to provide health care to other prisoners. Thus, you can get a job in the prison infirmary and still practice.

Eligibility for this varies a great deal, and it seems the more primary-care oriented the provider, and the more white-collar the conviction was for, the more likely the state licensing board will grant this limited license. I think it is very difficult if not impossible to get even a limited licensure reinstatement if you have been convicted of a violent felony, as was Dr. Harris or for a crime involving moral turpitude with a patient.

Of course, when you get out, it can be almost impossible to get a license to practice reinstated. I again know of several physicians who were convicted of felonies, served their time, and are now working as car salespeople and what not. It is unlikely that they will ever be licensed as physicians again in the United States.


Regards,

Michael Lloyd
Mill Creek, Washington USA

 

Degrees can be revoked. Below is quote taken from an ABA law school's website.

"Character and fitness disclosures or discoveries made subsequent to a student's enrollment will subject the student to review which could lead to discipline, dismissal from law school, or revocation of the diploma if the individual has graduated."