Tea leaves?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Aug 24, 2020.

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  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Great for the purpose! Kids will learn, for sure. Eugene Blau (Dr. Halfbaked) reminds me a bit, in appearance, of the late, popular British comedian, Marty Feldman.
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    How about Vince Guaraldi, playing a harpsichord instead of his usual piano. Or Linus, maybe.

    The late Mr. Guaraldi (real name Vincent Anthony Dellaglio) was an excellent jazz pianist, noted, among other reasons, for his theme songs etc. on the Charlie Brown specials and other Peanuts works. I remember back in the 60s when I started buying records, one of my first was "Vince Guaraldi and Bola Sete." "Bola Sete" - (Portuguese for 7-ball) was the nickname / stage name of popular Black Brazilian jazz guitarist, Djalma de Andrade.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Guaraldi
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bola_Sete

    Although he died in 1976, I still hear Mr. Guaraldi's recordings on the local jazz station. A musician to be remembered. Bola Sete died in the 80s. He left a legacy of great recordings. His website is still maintained and active. One of his greatest recordings is "Windspell" released in 2008, many years after his death. Have a look. www.bolasete.com
     
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  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I don't think I realized it then, back in my late teens (early 1960s) when I was just starting out learning about music - but now I think I liked Bola Sete partly because of his acknowledged influences. He said that among the guitarists who influenced him were Django Reinhardt, the protean Gypsy Jazz man, Charlie Christian, the pioneer of electric jazz guitar and Oscar Moore, fine guitarist in the Nat "King" Cole Trio. Those three men were famous 80 years ago and still are - and rightly so.
     
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  4. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Wow, you go way back.

    I think I go back as far as James George Tomkins, known professionally as Big Jim Sullivan. So its like 1958 or so,
    Django Reinhardt is fantastic, but I didn't discover him till maybe 15 years ago. Charlie Christian was ahead of his time, when I heard his playing I thought it was the late 50's early 60's
    turned out it was 1941 or so, amazing virtuoso.
     
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I first heard Django in the late 70s / early 80s and was hooked on Gypsy Guitar immediately. It is sad that Django died at quite an early age (47 or so) in the 1950s. Many other Gypsy Jazz players have taken up the art which Django almost single-handedly popularized. - Stochelo and Jimmy Rosenberg, Angelo Debarre, Romane, Wasso Grünholz, Andreas Varady .... some recent entrants are excellent players but are not of Sinti/Roma background. Man, it's hard stuff to play! I can't do it properly at all, - but it's fun trying...

    You're right. The great Charlie Christian's big year was 1941, at age 24. Very unfortunate that he died the following year, 1942, primary cause - tuberculosis.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Django_Reinhardt
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Christian

    I remember when my son, in his teens (he's 50 now) asked me if I had any Django records - so I put one on. I asked him whey he was interested, as he was more into heavy metal back then. He said he'd read about his favorite band, Black Sabbath. Their guitarist, Tony Iommi, had previously lost fingertips in a work injury, the day before he was to start touring with a band. He thought he'd have to give up playing, until the factory foreman (also a personal friend) played a Django record, to show him what a man with only two functional fingers on his left hand could do with a guitar. (Django's hand was permanently injured in a fire when he was about 18.)

    The record inspired Mr. Iommi to continue playing and he has had a very successful career, 1964 to date. He is now 72. He was awarded an honorary Doctor of Arts degree by Coventry University and has been appointed Visiting Professor of Music.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Iommi
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    BTW - the popular, Python language-based web-programming framework, "Django" is named after Django Reinhardt. I presume that's because the authors feel their product inspires creativity in its users. I think they have something, there. :)
     
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  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sure I do. I'm OLD. Going on 78... This pic of me was taken when I was about 40. :) I think it was from an early "no fly list."
     
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    "Spock" grew up speaking Yiddish in Boston. That generation is dying out and the language is dying with them.
     
  10. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Just like Paleo Aramaic, when Jews came back from Babylonian exile, they developed their own version of Aramaic.
    The same for the Yiddish.
    While mostly alive among Hassidic Jews our days, the Jews while living in Germany developed Yiddish that later spread to multiple parts of Jewish
    settlements in eastern Europe.
    Hebrew was for thousands of years only a ritualistic language is now a live language.
    Many American Jews speak American English unless one is a Hasidic or an elderly east European Jew.
    As long as Hassidic movements exist, Yiddish will be alive even if Jews assimilate in high numbers.
    The fact that Hebrew is an alive language again is a miracle.
    Leonard Nimoy "Spock" is a member of the pantheon of the first dynasty heroes
    with loyal following "Hassids" Strat Trekkers.
    Zei Gizunt
    Interesting where did Spock get his Vulcan hand sign? :)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
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  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I've read that this period was when Jews were first recognized as such. Until the Babylonian Captivity they were the Hebrews. At the end of it, they were Jews. Is that right? If so, perhaps the development of their own language had something to do with the re-identification.

    Yiddish still has its loyal fans - even among goyim like me. I liked it from the first time I heard it, as a teenager, "Shoppin' For Clothes" as the Coasters sang - in a Jewish-owned store.

    Yes - and it's largely a one-man miracle - Eliezer Ben-Yehuda IIRC.

    "Strat Trekkers?" I know you meant "Star" but it's a great name for a Fender-equipped Klezmer-Rock band ... could be really interesting, like the Klezmatics, perhaps. :)

    Ond tzu ir, meyn fraind. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
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  12. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    All I know is that's where English got most of its coolest words.
     
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  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Oh, that's so meshugah.
     
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes - a lot of them. But don't forget the many great contributions from African American, other Black and also Hispanic communities. Everything from machismo to mojo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I'm hip, jefe.
     
  16. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Hebrews indeed, But I think the evolution of the term Jew started much earlier.

    A long time ago when the children of Israel lived in clans/tribes the members of a specific tribe would be identified by the name of the tribe.
    We have an example in the Old Testament or Hebrew Tanach when Saul/Shaul was informed by the prophet Samuel that he was to be anointed
    as a King of Israel. Saul was surprised.
    1 Samuel 9:17
    When Samuel saw Saul, the LORD told him, "Here is the man of whom I spoke; he shall rule over My people."
    1 Samuel 9:21:
    "And Saul answered and said, Am not I a Benjamite (BenYamini), of the smallest of the tribes of Israel? and my family the least of all the families of the tribe of Benjamin?
    wherefore then speakest thou so to me?"
    So if a person was from the tribe of Judah, they would be calling themselves Jew. Or someone from the tribe of Dan, Dani, or Danite.
    Not to confuse with the Judeans who lived in the kingdom of Judah in Judea.
    So the term Jew evolved from being a member of the tribe of Judah to a subject of the Kingdom of Judah, just like one is Italian, Mexican, etc
    So when the people were taken from the kingdom of Judah to Babylonian captivity they were called Jews. Even if someone was from the tribe of Benjamin, lime Mordechay the Jew, who was a Benjamite.
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Evolution is an ongoing process. Possibly it started much earlier in this case, as you say, but it seems to have taken some centuries to complete. Most sources do not term the entire people Jews until after the Babylonian Captivity ended, 6th Century, BCE. Same as I read some years ago, IIRC. There are many more sources, but here's the Britannica on it:

    "Hebrew, any member of an ancient northern Semitic people that were the ancestors of the Jews. Biblical scholars use the term Hebrews to designate the descendants of the patriarchs of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament)—i.e., Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (also called Israel [Genesis 33:28])—from that period until their conquest of Canaan (Palestine) in the late 2nd millennium BCE. Thenceforth these people are referred to as Israelites until their return from the Babylonian Exile in the late 6th century BCE, from which time on they became known as Jews."

    So it seems to be: Hebrews - Israelites - Jews. according to the above, completing not before about 539 BCE.

    And here's a very interesting (to me, anyway) article from Haaretz that says basically the same, while very carefully tracing the emergence of the ancestor-words of the term "Jew."
    https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/why-are-jews-called-jews-1.5410757
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And yes - I know what many people think / feel about Haaretz in general. In this particular case, I don't think that comes into play - or am I wrong?
     
  19. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    There are multiple schools of thought.
    There is scriptural, academic, and archeological, and withing these also multiple schools of thought.
    The archeology and academic schools usually separate between the scripture, myth, and historical evidence from writings and findings from Holyland and surrounding countries.
    I mean they can't find evidence for Solomons's existence etc.
    So just like Christians became known as "graduates" of Paulin Antioch, before that they were known as saints, sisters, and brothers, Nazarenes (Acts), etc.
    Externally it was indeed not till the major exile of Jews that Persians called them Jews because they are from the Kingdom of Judah.
    But not having evidence for earlier use doesn't mean it didn't exist.
    After all, how would one identify himself if he/she was from the tribe of Judah?
    We also know that the term Judean was at that time as well. Yehudae vs Yehudi.
    And some old manuscripts have the exiles called Judeans not Jews.
    So strictly speaking, Jew is the title applied only to the tribe of Judah because it was the dominant tribe from which the kings came, eventually today it appears that members of all twelve tribes began to be labeled as Jews.
    In Yiddish A Yid - means Jew so the language of the Jews Yids - is Yiddish. Translates to Jewish.
    Ebonics is another example of interesting language
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes - but we have to remember that the Yiddish language as such is only about a thousand years old. "Yid" comes directly from the German "Jude."
     

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