Tea leaves?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Aug 24, 2020.

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  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    It's not that clear to me. Especially when you see busses with illegals go from city to city to vote and dead people vote.
    She did it to Bernie and everybody knows it including Bernie.

    I often hear and use right and left but I prefer to be viewed as conservative.

    There used to be conservatives in the Democratic party. As more radical socialists and communists increased in the Democratic party the Conservatives got pushed to the right as the left-shifted further to the radical left.

    Also, the majority of the colleges are LIBERAL the young people get indoctrinated by the left- from the freshman year.
    If you skip the first two years in liberal universities there is a chance the kid will be more independent and not brainwashed by the left.

    It is very sad that the conservative movement didn't make a stronger effort for more balanced colleges.
    There is no denying the left-leaning political bias on American college campuses. Data show that the professoriate has moved considerably leftward since the late 1980s, especially in the arts and humanities. In New England university were my friend graduated from, liberal professors outnumber their conservative colleagues by a ratio of 28:1.
    And take in to account liberal media that is an operative arm of the left constantly conditioning the minds of people, in attack mode against President Trump since 2015/16 nonstop. Indeed there are a lot of left voters.

    Nov is around the corner. So time will show.


     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Well, in the sense that she received a plurality of votes of those who were moved to participate, since we're on the subject of those who have no right to speak for all Americans....
     
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That whole thing sounded like a tired caricature that you'd see pushed by OANN to get clicks.
     
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Regarding the discussion about "closet racists", I believe the vast majority of racists fall into that category. I don't really like the term closet racist though because most racists don't even know that they are racist is my belief. My parents were racists but denied it because they didn't believe they were. They didn't hate blacks was their argument. They just thought that blacks were less intelligent. They thought blacks were much more prone to be lazy. They thought blacks were better athletes. Trump is a racist. I don't know if he admits it to himself or not though. Hard to tell because he lies so much. His father was a hood wearing KKK member. So part of his thinking may be that he doesn't hate anyone like his father did? For example, I saw Donald Trump addressing a group of Jews and he made a statement about them all being good negotiators. More famously, Donald Trump has said many racist things about blacks.
     
  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The popular vote is not what counts in the US elections.
    NY state or CA state should tell how Nebraska should live or Texas should live.
    If the popular vote alone decided elections, the presidential candidates would rarely visit those states or consider the needs of rural residents in their policy platforms.
     
  6. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Everyone is racist to a degree.
    I think there are levels of racism, where higher levels are haterade and violence and killings, genocide.
    Some are fueled by supremacy ideologies, others by demonization and some by self-defence or preservation mechanisms.
     
  7. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    The ultimate word on racism:



    And, just for the entertainment, here's precious little Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz:

     
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's not an argument against the Electoral College, that's an argument against centralization of power in Washington in general and against an imperial presidency in particular.

    If the popular vote alone decided the presidential election, states would no longer be winner take all. Right now millions of Republicans in California and New York and every other blue state, and millions of Democrats in a lot of the South and West know their votes for president don't count. Without the Electoral College, presidential candidates would have more reason to campaign nationally rather than only in swing states, not less.
     
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Let me speak (quietly) in favor of the often infuriating Electoral College system. Only fairly rarely have the results of the EC vote and the nationwide popular vote not coincided. True, that's happened twice recently but just four times over the history of the present Constitution so it's unusual. Now, the Electoral College has the advantage of certainty. The U.S. is gigantic with dozens of state and local authorities all involved in counting the single largest popular vote we have. Imagine the potential for endless litigation if the popular vote were close and we elected the President directly. But although an Elector can be punished for being "faithless" his vote is not thereby invalidated. The Electoral Vote count is certain and leaves no doubt as to the winner.

    Ignoring, of course, the chicanery in 1876.
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Also ignoring the disputed Florida results in 2000, since the Electoral College system did more harm than good when it comes to doubt about the winner, making it a pretty glaring counter-example.
     
  11. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Well, there are problems with every system. I do not claim that the Electoral College is the best system, or even that it is a GOOD system or that it couldn't be improved by, say, allowing states electoral votes based on the number of U.S. Representatives only instead of Senators plus Representatives. There are endless possible reforms that could be tried. But there is value in a timely assertion of certainty in election results.
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This seems to be borne out by recent polling:
    As of May 2020, Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 25% identified as Republican, and 40% as Independent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_U.S._states#:~:text=As%20of%20May%202020%2C%20Gallup,%2C%20and%2040%25%20as%20Independent.

    But...there really aren't that many independents in practical matters, just a lot of people who don't want to dogmatically commit to one party or another--publicly, anyway.
     
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Um...I'm not the lawyer here, but isn't that already laid out in the Constitution and election law? The states have a deadline for determining the winners and to appoint electors to the EC, right?
     
  14. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Right. And that's the point. We are guaranteed SOMEONE to take the oath insofar as humanly possible.
     
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    States hold elections to determine who gets the slate of voters for each of those states.

    The states send those slates of voters to the Electoral College.

    If, for some reason, some states can't do that, oh well. They don't count.

    The EC voters are typically, but not always, bound to support the candidate to whom they are pledged. There have been a few cases of "unfaithful" voters switching, but it has never changed the outcome of an election.

    If, for some reason, no candidate wins a majority (not simply a plurality, but a majority, which is currently 270 of 538) of votes in the EC, the vote goes to the House of Representatives.

    Each state's delegation to the House gets one vote. The votes from the state delegations are added up and the winner is the one with the most votes. (They don't have to limit their consideration to those candidates who were considered by the Electoral College.)

    If, for some reason, the House cannot decide a winner by the time the president is to be inaugurated, the duties of the president fall to the Speaker of the House until the House can select a president. If the Speaker cannot take the duties, the fall to the President pro tempore of the Senate (not the Majority Leader).

    Only 5 candidates have lost the popular vote and yet won the EC. The first three failed to win re-election. The fourth, George W. Bush, won, but with the smallest margin (of the popular vote) ever for a winning incumbent. The fifth is being decided as we speak.

    We will have a president. The election has been thrown to the House twice, in 1800 and 1824. In both cases, the House successfully selected a president.
     
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  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Sounds similar to the common response given when it's pointed out that Trump is a pathological liar. That is all politicians lie. Sorry it doesn't really excuse the President's over 20,000 public lies since taking office nor his racism. at least not in my opinion. Probably the worst "cultural" poison there is to our well functioning society is racism. For example, the FBI says the biggest danger to the public welfare is not foreign terrorism, or Antifa, or the left. It's white supremist that pose the greatest danger. It's safe to assume that Trump is the favorite presidential candidate for white supremists at least since George Wallace.
     
  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    My post was in general terms. But I would like to check the numbers you quote.
    Especially with fake news and left-biased media.
    Noting wrong in loving your country and nation, wanting it to be great, in terms of the American dream of the pursuit of happiness and equality for all.
    Supremacy groups piggyback on Nationalism.
    Just like anarchist groups, that want to burn America piggyback on Liberalism. They are treathening violance, and intimidate people.
    Lets see what they will do if President Trump wins the ellections in November.
    I'm not promoting violance in any form or shape, simply state what is going on.
    People are arming them selves, in some states the backlog to get a license for a gun is more then 6 months.
    I pray we don't get to this. Police departmets will be in full allert.
     
  18. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    It's beginning to dawn on me that the GOP might have a very good night overall. Again, it comes down to turnout which is driven in a presidential election by the enthusiasm of the respective party bases. Biden seems not to have as much of a base as Trump which is why I think Trump will win the electoral college vote. Well while they're there, Trump voters will also fill out the rest of the ballot for Republicans.
     
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Interesting. What happens if a state delegation is an even number and is evenly divided? Did that happen in 1800 or 1824?
     
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    “The Treasury records acquired by the Chairmen show potential criminal activity relating to transactions among and between Hunter Biden, his family, and his associates with Ukrainian, Russian, Kazakh and Chinese nationals,” the report reads. “In particular, these documents show that Hunter Biden received millions of dollars from foreign sources as a result of business relationships that he built during the period when his father was vice president of the United States and after.”

    "The 87-page interim report comes amid a months-long probe in which members of the Senate Homeland Security and Finance Committees and their staff reviewed more than 45,000 pages of Obama administration records and interviewed eight witnesses, many of whom are current or former U.S. officials."

    [​IMG]
    Jack Crowe
    ,
    National ReviewSeptember 23, 2020
     

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