One-year Online DMSc.

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by chrisjm18, Aug 1, 2020.

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  1. Linguaphile89

    Linguaphile89 New Member

    True. When AACOMAS (the governing body of osteopathic medical schools in the US) removed their grade replacement policy, that significantly changed the options for those who couldn't get into an allopathic school, which is difficult enough, as you've stated. Now the only path to fix poor academic performance for med school admission is pretty much to do a special master's program or go to the Caribbean.
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Prudence comes in many forms. A nurse who goes all the way from RN to DNP might be working the whole time, whereas getting through medical school almost certainly means not working. The nurse practitioner may end up without debt, whereas the physician may end up with an awful lot of it.
     
  3. Linguaphile89

    Linguaphile89 New Member

    Indeed, I think the DNP route and reasoning is certainly more clear for that reason alone. Candidly, I've had little exposure to PAs, so they're more of an enigma to me in terms of career progression, but I don't know if any earned doctorate provides them any career advantage, yet. In either case, I can see the case for working while growing in the scope of your clinical duties and not taking the obscene amount of loans required for straight medical school.

    In general, I like the thought of programs such as these, but the pervasiveness of 'he or she is just a nurse practitioner or just a physician's assistant amongst many people I know is widespread, and a lot of legitimate hard work by PAs and NPs seems to go unnoticed and is not rewarded in the way that it should be. No matter how much they study, increase their clinical knowledge, become experts at patient care, etc.. they will always be viewed as second rate to physicians in the eyes of some. I'd hate to be in such a limbo, hence my comment from a personal standpoint. I admire the PAs and NPs who aim for the pinnacle of their career, but I hate that they have an artificial ceiling. To some, that may not matter. They're better people than I.

    I don't like the way access to prestige careers such as law and medicine are currently set up. I think that apprenticeship and thorough examination should be a viable route to a license in these professions, similar to the way one can become eligible for some state bars in some states today. If you can apprentice and pass the same exams as everyone else, and earn at least somewhat of a living in doing so, then you should be able to earn the same license.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
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  4. copper

    copper Active Member

    Believe it or not, admission to PA school is becoming very competitive as well. I think it is due to the fact that MD/DO schools burden the graduate with too much debt whereas a PA can hit the ground running after 28 months. In addition, there are highly compensated specialties available to PA's like Dermatology, Orthopedics, Surgery/Assisting, etc. Even some of the primary cares pay well!
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
  5. Linguaphile89

    Linguaphile89 New Member

    I don't doubt that! I wasn't aware that AACOMAS dropped their grade replacement policy until I was having a discussion with a friend who's currently an M1 at Ross. Having it in place really made DO an acceptable alternative for those who really wanted a maximized scope of practice in the US, but who had hiccups in their undergraduate years and needed to work on their GPA. The ability to 'overwrite' bad academic performance and still have a shot at a full-scope clinical career through DO was a saving grace for a lot of people. Since that rule change, the route to the career for people who had been less than perfect for whatever reason in their undergrad has been severely cut off. Couple that with rising tuition and lack of certainty, and I can see why admissions to PA are on the rise.

    At some point, not only will the healthcare system need to be revamped, but medical education will have to be as well. The costs are obscene.
     
  6. copper

    copper Active Member

    I think communities are going to have to chip in to send their "locals" to medical school if they commit to serve them. 500 thousand dollars of debt is too much a burden!
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This is what my lovely wife did. (It was an extensive master's; the DNP was not yet available.) She graduated with zero debt more than 15 years ago.
     
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  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Becoming an NP and becoming a PA are really different things. The main difference: NPs are nurses first. PAs can go to school with no medical experience and graduate as PAs. Nurse Practitioners are advanced practice nurses. Physician Assistants are what they are.

    Another major difference is the level of supervision. PAs usually work on teams under the supervision of a physician. NPs, on the other hand, are providers themselves and--depending on the legal jurisdiction--can work quite independently. In some states they must be supervised by physicians. In other states, their scope of care must be reviewed and approved by a supervising physician, but they don't have to be directly supervised. In still others, NPs can practice completely independently.

    This is all a moving target, so YMMV.
     
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  9. copper

    copper Active Member

    Agreed! However, I think it's noteworthy to mention in regards to your comment that "NPs are nurses first" that in the "old days" nurses "worked the floor" for many years, gaining valuable clinical experience before applying to NP school! Today we see direct entry NP programs with freshly minted RNs entering at the MSN and or DNP level and zero post graduate work experience. So I would agree that NPs are nurses first but for some, very briefly!

    In regards, to PA school, you would be very surprised at how many applicants have previous healthcare experience as well! Many applicants come from military corpsman backgrounds, respiratory therapists, biologists, paramedics, exercise therapists, physiologists and even foreign medical physicians who practice medicine for years in their countries.

    I hate the term "mid level provider" because it is not accurate and denotes some kind of mid quality care. I prefer to say we all strive to perform at a high level within our scope.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Oh, yes. In fact, the Air Force was using PAs back in the 1970s, and it's a great way for technicians to move up.

    For a long time, Air Force PAs were enlisted. Then, overnight, they all became officers. If you were a Master Sergeant (E-7) you became a second lieutenant. Senior Master Sergeants became first lieutenants and Chief Master Sergeants became captains. Again, overnight. Back then, PAs completed a bachelor's degree program, and many nurses were commissioned on the basis of their associate degrees. That's all changed, of course. My wife was commissioned with a bachelor's in 1984 and it was a requirement by then. Starting in the late 1970s, the Air Force sent a lot of nurses back to school (full-time) to get their BSNs. Most were captains at that point in their careers.
     
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  11. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

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