A third master's degree?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by chrisjm18, Feb 21, 2020.

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  1. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    So, I am thinking of pursuing a master's in digital forensics at the University of the Cumberlands. It's 31 credits total but I will be able to transfer 9 credits from my MS in CJ to meet the criminal justice specialization requirement. https://www.ucumberlands.edu/academics/graduate/programs/master-science-digital-forensics/degree Hence, I would have to take 7 (3-credit course) and 1 (1-credit culminating course). The total cost would be $6,930. I honestly don't know why I want to pursue this except that I.T. is the way to the future... lol. I think maybe I could do some online adjunct gig with it too and maybe gain some experience and do some part-time consulting stuff. Idk.. but my heart is in juvenile justice and that's where I hope to return once I finish my Ph.D. I am a former LEO (5+ years) and currently teach business and criminal justice to high school upper-level students. I have an MBA, MS in CJ, and about to start my dissertation for my Ph.D. in CJ. in the summer.

    Before I apply... please give me some reasonable advice. Thanks!
     
  2. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    It sounds like a fun program, that is only a few courses and very affordable. I would haphazardly guess the online adjunct market for that specialty is sparse. I would also haphazardly guess, that there are people currently teaching it with either a masters or doctorate in criminal justice, which you already have and will soon obtain. Credentials and education are both important and often enjoyable to accumulate. If that is your hobby, absolutely pursue it if you have the resources (time and coins). Realistically, having earned a doctorate at your age and with your LEO and teaching experience, I would think your time and money could be better invested in building your professional career. Or alternatively... simply put in an index fund.
     
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  3. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Sound advice. Maybe I could put this money in my son's college fund (the son I don't have yet lol). However, once I finish my Ph.D., it is time to buy a house and start my family as a single parent with a son.
     
    Darwin likes this.
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Check the transfer policy carefully and ask someone there if this point isn't clear: You often cannot transfer credits used for one degree towards another. As for the utility of a third master's, I'm the wrong guy to ask.
     
  5. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I think that education for education's sake is fine. Maybe it's like a kind of hobby. You could spend more that $7K on a motorcycle or skiing trips, etc. and so spending the money is maybe not such a big deal either (assuming you've actually got the money to spend) but if you reallyreally don't understand your motivation then you might want to pause until it's clear in your mind.
     
  6. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Hmmmm . . . so many choices. Just a few that you’ve brought up recently:
    • I honestly don't know why I want to pursue [a third master’s] except that I.T. is the way to the future... lol.
    • . . . my heart is in juvenile justice and that's where I hope to return once I finish my Ph.D.
    • . . . once I finish my Ph.D., it is time to buy a house and start my family as a single parent with a son. [Don’t you think you should, perhaps, find a wife or husband first?]
    • I think I’ll become an expat and go teach in Saudi Arabia.
    Brings an old expression to mind: When your head stops spinning around, we can only hope that you are once again facing forward.
     
  7. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I made sure I told her I had two master's degree and specifically asked if I could transfer the credits from the CJ degree and the rep said yes.

    I know St. Thomas University in Florida will accept up to 18 master's level credits into their Ed.D. if they are credits beyond the first master's degree (i.e. second master's).
     
  8. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Funnily, I always wanted to own a motorcycle. Two summers ago, I bought one online from a dealer located about 60 miles away from where I was living. I called up my insurance company and added the bike to my insurance. Then, I stopped in my tracks. I never thought the whole deal through. It was a split-second decision. I had nowhere to park my new cycle and had nowhere to store it in the winter. I ended up canceling the purchase. However, once I have my house, I plan to get a motorcycle. I was a trained police motorcyclist in my home country but haven't driven a bike since I left.
     
  9. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Don't you think if I wanted a wife or husband (as you put it) to be a apart of my family, I would have mentioned that? I want to be a single dad, is that a crime?

    My only motivation for wanting to go to Saudi was to accumulate a lot of savings to buy my house. However, that's not on my radar anymore. I'd rather stay local to access the research participants for my dissertation.

    Don't forget that all my degrees (BS, MS, and soon to be Ph.D.) are all in criminal justice. So, I'm not all over the place. Except for my current teaching job, which includes criminal justice, and my first job out of high school, my experience from 2010 to 2018 has only been law enforcement and juvenile justice.
     
  10. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Steve, also add these to your list:

    1. I got accepted to Shoreline Community College today to pursue a Certificate in Child Advocacy Studies (CAST). https://www.shoreline.edu/programs/early-childhood-education/child-advocacy-studies-certificate.aspx
    It cost under $2k and more in line with my long-term career goals in juvenile justice.

    2. I'm waiting to hear back from Suffolk University in Boston to know if I am admitted to the Professional Certificate in Restorative Justice Practices. https://www.suffolk.edu/cas/centers-institutes/center-for-restorative-justice/professional-certificate-in-restorative-justice-practice
    This is another course that aligns with my juvenile justice ambition. It does cost a whopping $7,200, so I'm hoping that I get one of the partial scholarships, and hope it's more than 50%.
    I would have to attend two residencies in Boston, the first one is for two weeks and the second one is for one week.

    3. I'm working on my first peer-reviewed journal article (sole author) under the guidance of an esteemed professor from my MSCJ program. Let me know if you want to collaborate with this "ageist millennial punk." No, I don't want to be a full-time college faculty but would pursue it just so I can rub it in your face. I just want to boost my ego by publishing in a peer-reviewed journal.
     
  11. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    I've done Boston - a seminar at Northeastern University. If you like seafood, you'll be right at home there. (Not to menion that it's a provincial city, much like Philly.) But try to make it in the summer - the winters are a drag up there.
    I'll graciously decline the collaboration. Twice in the past I've dealt with egotistical idiots, not even in my field, who felt I should have given them credit for things that I have written solo. I've also been plagiarized twice. Therefore, I have since had a policy of never collaborating.

    As for rubbing it in my face, I hate to disappoint you, Chris. I've been published in several journals, magazines, and newspapers. Peer review means nothing to me (although I've been there, done that, too). And have done several endowed lectureships. Oh, did I forget to mention having written five books (but who's counting)?

    As I've said to you in the past, I was raised in an academically collegial environment. I have never done competition, never will. But I wish you the best on the ego boost - you definitely have the writing skills for it. But don't let the compliment give you a swelled head. Just enjoy it now - the further you move from your doctorate (once in hand), it will matter less and less.

    As for being an ageist millennial punk, I have faith that you will grow out of that as well. Because, if you're lucky, one day you will get to be my age. And whatever the younger generation calls itself at that point, they'll hand you the same shit that you now hand those who are older and wiser than you are today. And, if you have grown in your doctoral wisdom, it will matter to you as little then as it does to me now. :D
     
  12. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Both residencies are in the summer, at the beginning and at the end of the program. I'm not a seafood lover but always wanted to visit Boston.

    I wasn't referring to publications. I was talking about the fact that some of you guys tend to shut down the idea that online degree holders can land tenure-track or other full-time faculty positions. Kudos to you on your writing achievement.

    I not only want to be your age someday but I hope to exceed it. I am not afraid of getting old but I will enjoy my youth for now :D
     
  13. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    You two crazy kids... having this kind of banter back and forth, following each other around, Chris & Steve - we all know what's going on with you two!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
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  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    That's grossly unfair. Everyone I've ever seen comment on this topic will conceded that there are some tenure-track and other faculty of traditional schools with DL degrees. But those are anecdotal exceptions. Dig a little and you'll find unique circumstances for all. What you won't find: graduates of DL programs routinely going through traditional job hunts and prevailing over candidates who earned their doctorates traditionally.

    The point: pursuing a DL degree is NOT a pathway to traditional academe. It offers none of the traditional experiences and exposures that typically make candidates successful--internships, symposia, teaching, publishing, and being mentored for that track all along the way. This doesn't just apply to online degrees; it applies to anyone who has earned a degree outside the traditional system.

    If some school wants to hire you in particular, it will take whatever degree will be acceptable, including degrees by DL. And even if you hold, say, a doctorate from a top-20 school in the UK, if you didn't go through the traditional process, universities really don't care.

    It's unfair to posters to muddy up this issue or give them false hopes. Let's keep it real, huh?
     
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  15. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    My reaction to this string of names is to say "Of course" You'll always find names. As Rich suggested, this is nothing new. But even if you could find every single example, my guess is that it would be an incredibly small percentage. The odds are heavily against. It reminds me of the argument "Bill Gates doesn't have a college degree so that proves they're a waste of time." The odds are heavily against. Now I think that people should aggressively pursue their goals. But that doesn't mean being blind to the odds. Have a Plan B.
     
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  16. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Huh? I've never shut that idea down. On the contrary, I've always said that to every rule there are exceptions. For the rule, I'll stick with Rich's position above - there is a mentality of, "I paid my dues, you should, too" when it comes to faculty hiring and tenure decisions, and those who went the traditional route still control the big picture. But someone with talent who went a nontraditional route, including online, can succeed in this crazy business. That said, higher education on the whole is in a state of flux, and it's a state that will likely continue to go down the tubes, regardless of how people earn their advanced credentials.
    Uh-oh, Chris, we've been found out. Everyone knew I was born and raised in Philly, so when you moved here I warned you that people would eventually figure it out. See? I told you that taking you to the playground and the children's museum wouldn't fool anyone - you just weren't believable as my son.
     
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  17. Helpful2013

    Helpful2013 Active Member

    Rich is right, there are massive challenges to coming into traditional academia from outside the norm. In principle, I don’t think all academics consciously reject the idea of distance education or non-traditional education, although many do. Much of this is driven by the hyper-competitive job market and the mechanics of the application process. Desperate search committees are looking to whittle down the hundreds of cv’s by any means, so to make progress towards a ‘long list’ they start binning the ones that have anything outside the norm … such as a non-traditionally earned doctorate. I want to make clear that I don’t endorse using such snap judgments as a filter to manage gigantic piles of applications, but I do understand why people do it.

    This is similar to what I recently posted in the ‘Capella PhD and Tenure’ thread about the sadly standard practice of search committees not reading applicants’ articles (even on the short list), but merely judging their quality by using the reputation of the journal they were published in as a kind of ‘shorthand.’ Again, I don’t endorse that shortcut either, but it happens all too frequently.

    Do I know any exceptions? Yes. A celebrated colleague who recently retired at the top of his field never listed where he got his doctorate from. I got curious, looked around on the internet, and found it – an institution so obscure that I had never heard of it, and one I promptly forgot again. To my knowledge, he earned his doctorate in a traditional format, and the institution was legitimate, just tiny and obscure, the kind of place that lesser people might mock over drinks. He made it to the top of his field by publishing top-quality material in such prodigious amounts that his doctorate basically became irrelevant to his reputation – any snide people trying to mock it would have looked ridiculous in light of his (genuinely groundbreaking) monographs and articles. While it’s an exception, it’s important to be realistic like Rich cautions and note that this exception is one that occurred in a much less-competitive age. It’s also not an exception that worked absent a huge amount of research productivity.
     
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  18. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I think we can all agree that there are exceptions to every rule.
     
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    If there is a discernable, reliable, repeatable path from a life of practice and a doctorate earned nontraditionally--even from a top-rated B&M university--to a professorship, I'd sure like to hear it described. I'm looking for a new gig.
     
  20. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I can think of one rule that has no exceptions. Wanna guess?
     

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