Help choosing graduate programs…

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Gordon, Nov 21, 2002.

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  1. Gordon

    Gordon New Member

    Warm greetings to all from chilly Canada!

    To borrow a familiar phrase, I’m a long time listener, but a first time caller…

    Let me first offer my sincere thanks to all contributors of Degreeinfo. I consider it to be my good fortune to have found this site, and, the very good advice that I found here has already helped me a great deal. Thank you all once again.

    I am writing today to seek opinions regarding graduate training programs in clinical and/or counselling psychology.

    In brief, I hold a Bachelor of Science degree, in Psychology, as well as a Bachelor of Education degree. I am in my early 40’s, currently work in the field of children’s mental health, and am looking to complete graduate studies in clinical and/or counselling psychology.

    My long-term career goal(s) include the completion of a PhD, the development of a small private practice, consultation, research, and entertaining the possibility of tertiary-level teaching (once a teacher, always a teacher…)

    In particular, the area of psychological assessment remains important to me. At our end of the continent, there continues to be high demand to provide assessments - psychological, psycho-educational, risk management, etc – and, I happen to have a particular fondness for this area. Consequently, I anticipate that I will become more active in this field.

    To better balance work and family commitments, I was /am seeking a university that would otherwise permit and/or offer a more flexible – asynchronous (?) - approach to graduate program delivery.

    In this regard, I have been investigating a number of DL programs, and, as a result, a rather impressive collection of graduate school calendars and application packages is currently stacked sky-high on my office desk!

    Accordingly, two such DL master’s programs have caught my eye. Namely, the Masters of Science in Counselling at Fort Hayes State University and the Masters of Science in Continuing Education at the University of West Alabama.

    The Fort Hays program is priced quite modestly, and the people with whom I’ve spoken have been very friendly and helpful. However, each of the individual courses that make up this program carries a COUN prefix (as opposed to PSY prefix), and, I am mindful that others have noted this may later impose some possible limitations.

    The University of West Alabama program is also quite modestly priced - tho a touch more than FHSU - however, each of the individual courses that make up this program carries a PY prefix.

    Moreover, private correspondence with the school (UWA) indicates that, in addition to those psychometric courses noted on the web site, the program is preparing to add additional course(s) with respect to psychological assessment.

    However, one of the concerns I have about the West Alabama program is that I am a little uncomfortable with the ‘name’ of the degree (MSCE) - I had never heard of this degree nor had I seen a degree of this name attached to any faculty and/or clinical staff members. I would probably sign up tomorrow if the program were simply called a Masters of Science…
    However, I am mindful that if the UWA degree will take me to the places I would like to go, and allow me to do the types of things I’d like to do, then by all accounts, it clearly meets my needs and is therefore worthy of my pursuit. And, if this program is the one that offers the most flexibility then perhaps I should simply write the cheque, enjoy my graduate school education, and learn to live with the name. (Yes, I realize I may have answered my own question here…)
    On the other hand, I am hesitating…have I overlooked something; am I missing something; am I being unreasonable?

    So, my questions would be: the degree to which the COUN prefixes from FHSU might impose limitations, and, whether or not I am getting a little too cooked up about this issue of the name of the UWA degree.

    Those are my issues and my questions. I shall close and thank you for any and all comments, concerns, opinions and assistance, you may be able to provide.

    All the best,

    Gordon
    (who is still cold in this part of chilly Canada…)
     
  2. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Hi Gordon - The biggest problem I've got in responding to your question is that I know nothing about the licensing laws in Canada as they relate to psychologists. My first piece of advice (maybe you've already done this) is to check into what types of degrees are required in order to do the work you envision. Then you can figure out who offers those degrees, etc, etc. In the US I don't think that you can be licensed to do psych testing with just a Masters degree. I may be way off-base with this, it's just that all the people I know who do testing are all PhDs or PsyDs.
    Jack
     
  3. Gary Rients

    Gary Rients New Member

    Hello!

    I can't access the UWA website right now, but it is probably safe to say: I wouldn't worry about their reference to an MSCE. AFAIK every MS degree has an associated major, and it seems that they are simply incorporating the major into their abbreviation for that degree (so it would still be a Master of Science). This is very common practice, such as with an MSCS (Master of Science in Computer Science), MSEE (Master of Science in Electrical Engineering), etc. Some schools refer to their degrees using that shorthand, and some don't; it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the nature of the degree.

    However, I would like to echo Jack in urging you to confirm with the appropriate governing authorities to make doubly (or triply!) sure that this degree will in fact provide the qualification that you're after. You've probably done that already, but it would be a real disappointment to complete a degree only to find out after that you couldn't use it how you'd intended! You also might want to look ahead and contact some PhD programs that you might be interested in, to ensure that this degree would qualify you for entry.

    Good luck!
     
  4. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

  5. tenbsmith

    tenbsmith New Member

    Licensing is clearly important. Also important is reimbursement from insurance or governmental agencies. These two may be synonymous, I don't know. Be sure the degree you pursue allows you to bill these entities on your own, without any supervision.
     
  6. Gordon

    Gordon New Member

    licensing laws in Canada etc...

    The biggest problem I've got in responding to your question is that I know nothing about the licensing laws in Canada as they relate to psychologists. My first piece of advice (maybe you've already done this) is to check into what types of degrees are required in order to do the work you envision. Then you can figure out who offers those degrees, etc, etc. In the US I don't think that you can be licensed to do psych testing with just a Masters degree. I may be way off-base with this, it's just that all the people I know who do testing are all PhDs or PsyDs.


    Jack

    Thank you for your reply and good advice.

    I have indeed researched this issue, and, in short, it goes like this: the local hospital(s), and/or public or private mental health clinic(s), may have Master’s degree level personnel working in the area of psychometrics, however, these individuals work under the supervision of licensed Psychologists.

    The local hospital, with which I am affiliated, hires Psychometrists who carry Master’s level qualifications and who, likewise, remain under the supervision of a licensed PhD within the department.

    However, the specific answer to your question regarding the type(s) of degrees required to do the work, is that when the hospital seeks to recruit Psychometrists, they do not appear to prefer nor specify any one particular type of degree over another. Rather, it is competency based; a master’s degree in a related field coupled with exposure to and/or training in psychometrics.

    With respect to licensing, at the Master’s degree level, one may obtain licensure as a Psychological Associate, but, this would not be my goal…

    My idea is to complete my Master’s degree and then seek employment at a local hospital, and/or public or private mental health clinic where I would remain under the supervision of licensed Psychologists, work in the area of psychological assessment, and then pursue my PhD.

    So, I went looking for a Master’s level program which would provide me with the appropriate academic preparation vis-à-vis testing and assessment…..

    Thanks again,

    Gordon
     
  7. Gordon

    Gordon New Member

    Originally posted by Gary:

    I can't access the UWA website right now, but it is probably safe to say: I wouldn't worry about their reference to an MSCE. AFAIK every MS degree has an associated major, and it seems that they are simply incorporating the major into their abbreviation for that degree (so it would still be a Master of Science). This is very common practice, such as with an MSCS (Master of Science in Computer Science), MSEE (Master of Science in Electrical Engineering), etc. Some schools refer to their degrees using that shorthand, and some don't; it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the nature of the degree.

    Gary, Excellent! Thank you for providing this piece of information. I think it may represent the missing link that I was seeking…it makes much more sense now.

    Originally posted by Gary:

    However, I would like to echo Jack in urging you to confirm with the appropriate governing authorities to make doubly (or triply!) sure that this degree will in fact provide the qualification that you're after. You've probably done that already, but it would be a real disappointment to complete a degree only to find out after that you couldn't use it how you'd intended! You also might want to look ahead and contact some PhD programs that you might be interested in, to ensure that this degree would qualify you for entry.

    I absolutely agree with both you and Jack, and continue to investigate this issue. In this regard, I have placed a call to the former (retired) HOD at the local hospital to discuss with him my plans. Quite simply, I will ask whether or not I would be recommended for hiring if I were to present with one of these Masters’ degrees from either of these Universities. I shall report the results once known.

    Gordon
     
  8. Gordon

    Gordon New Member

    Athabasca

    Mike,

    Athabasca is an excellent university with an outstanding program. However, I am seeking a program with more exposure to psychological assessment. As you are aware, the ‘base cost’ of the Athabasca program is $13,800 (CAN). And, although this does include books and other study materials the program requires mandatory attendance at the summer institute(s) and weekend schools. Adding the cost of travel to the base cost increases the net cost of the degree yet again. I do not wish to appear to be focusing entirely on the financial aspect, but it is a lot of money for a degree that does not give me the exposure I am seeking.

    Thanks,

    Gordon
     
  9. Gordon

    Gordon New Member

    apologies to all

    Only now am I beginning to figure out how to (safely) use the copy, paste & quote buttons. I apologize for any protocol and/or etiquette breach during my ‘learning curve’.


    Gordon
     
  10. Gordon

    Gordon New Member

    Excellent points. It is my understanding - and, I am happy to defer to those who have more knowledge and expertise in this area - that, due to the structure and arrangement of the socialized health care system in Canada, the opportunities to bill third-party insurance agencies, most notably for those Psychologists practicing in the Province of Ontario, remain somewhat limited.
    Nevertheless, the opportunities that do exist typically require a Doctorate level degree coupled with Provincial licensure – ie – non-supervised practice. Although, I have been told that some third-party insurance companies have started to permit individuals holding Master’s level credentials, and carrying a Family & Marriage Therapists licence (FMT), to bill directly.

    Thanks again

    Gordon
     

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