London School of International Business ?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by SuperDuper, Nov 18, 2019.

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  1. SuperDuper

    SuperDuper New Member

    Im talking about this site.

    It's everywhere!

    It seems like a degree mill to me but they have co-operations with some accredited univerities in UK.

    The linkedin page is almost empty. Btw, a lot of indians in their staff...

    They have positive reviews everywhere.

    Any idea?
     
  2. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    They offer perfectly legitimate awards as part of the British system of regulated qualifications. You can treat them as stand-alone qualifications, or transfer the coursework for a top-up degree. Before you sign-up, it's good to check the awarding organization and its awards in the following register; https://register.ofqual.gov.uk/Search?Category=Organisations

    It's good option, if you reside in a country that respects these qualifications (examples: Malta, Cyprus as well as a few former British colonies), or if you simply intend to get a British degree. This is a good cost reduction strategy, as long as you are guaranteed a top-up degree transfer. You need to look at the specific partnerships in order to determine whether the diplomas at the various levels will help you reach your goals. For example, the level 7 diplomas might potentially transfer to a British Master's, as the qualification is at the same level. However, the transfer doesn't occur automatically. You need to find out whether the university transfer agreement has been established.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  3. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    I concur - they come off like a degree mill. Their accreditation page alone is typical of a degree mill - naming a bunch of organizations that, by nature, do not accredit and are not recognized as accreditors.

    As for the Indian connection, that is revealed on their contact page:

    Technology and Delivery Centre
    Suite 716, DLF Tower A, Jasola District Centre,
    Jasola, New Delhi - 110025, India.
    (t) : +91-(11)-405-45151
    [email protected]

    Europe - Marketing Office
    Suite 622, Crown House,
    North Circular Road,
    Park Royal, London, NW10 7PN,
    England, United Kingdom (U.K.)​

    Who do these people think they are, Microsoft (which outsourced its tech support from California to India years ago).

    Yeah, gotta watch out for them Injuns . . . Their office probably smells like curry. And turmeric. And incense. But I stereotypically and obnoxiously jest.
     
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  4. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    https://global.lsib.co.uk/recognition.aspx

    The only stupid thing is the listing of Sage, which is a provider of software! The rest of the accreditation bodies do not raise eyebrows. They all qualify as British government (Ofqual) awarding bodies. I don't see any problems other than the annoying marketing. Maybe that's what gives them the degree mill aura.
     
  5. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    The degree section suggest that LSIB offers degree programs and that those degrees are 'validated' by universities in the UK to offer instruction leading to award of degrees from those British universities. That's an accepted procedure in the UK. But... I couldn't find any note of which British university's degrees one would receive. Isn't that an important thing for prospective students to know? (Maybe it's there but I missed it.) Most non-degree granting schools that do this feature the degree-awarding university as something students need to know, as a point of pride and as a selling point.

    The Ofqual thing doesn't really concern university degrees, does it? As I understand it it's about non-degree post-secondary education, certificate programs and things like that.

    Ofqual says themselves, "We maintain standards and confidence in qualifications in England: GCSEs, A levels, AS levels, vocational and technical qualifications"

    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/ofqual/about

    If British university degrees are involved, a recognized British degree awarding body would have to be involved. (And the accreditor would be the QAA.)

    I didn't see LSIB as either a recognized (authorized to award its own degrees) or a listed body (validated to offer instruction leading to award of a recognized body's degrees) here:

    https://www.gov.uk/check-a-university-is-officially-recognised

    Validation arrangements can be fluid and change rapidly, so the list might not be 100% up-to-date. So they suggest contacting them directly if a particular school isn't on the list.

    "If your university or college is not listed, contact the Office for Students to check that they're officially recognised."

    Office for Students

    [email protected]
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  6. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    heirophant,

    They don't need to be a listed body, if the university takes over at the top-up stage. If they would be the ones handling the degree-awarding and degree teaching process, it would be a problem. Since these diplomas can be utilized at different universities, a comprehensive list might also be unnecessary. However, it would be good to ask them about the specific British universities that have already agreed to the top-up procedure. Also, it is important to realize that British awarding bodies are allowed to provide unregulated awards alongside their regulated diplomas. LSIB might potentially offer both kinds of awards. In this case, the value of the qualification is rather significantly diminished. That's why it's good to refer directly to the official register instead of LSIB's website.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Here’s my takeaway

    if a bunch of smart, knowledgeable people are having some trouble in sorting it all out, do you really want to get involved? Especially in the area of Business where there are so many alternatives. And especially if their legitimacy is based on a validation agreement that can disappear overnight. But that’s just me and it’s really unrelated to whether the school is currently “ok.”
     
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  8. Pappas

    Pappas Member

  9. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    I don't understand what you are talking about. What does "these diplomas" refer to? What kind of diplomas? What is "top up"? What we Americans understand by "degree completion" or "transfer credit"?

    What worries me are things like the PhD that appears on the LSIB website. There are many other degree titles there too at the bachelors and masters levels.

    https://global.lsib.co.uk/course-details.aspx?CourseTitle=PHd&subject=Business&Award=Degree

    Maybe the Ofqual thing might facilitate use of LSIB work as transfer credit and give LSIB graduates some kind of advanced status at participating British universities. If so, then LSIB probably does have some value in the British scheme of things.

    But they need to be more clear about what it is that they are offering and they shouldn't have degrees prominently featured on their website if in reality they don't offer degrees.
     
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  10. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    A British top-up degree just allows you to convert your existing qualification (a diploma at the appropriate level) into a degree. It kind of works like transfer credit. Yeah, I think it might have some value in the British scheme, as you've said. The above school (LSIB) provides government listed non-degree qualifications, which (in some cases) might be used in the degree conversion process.

    Here's the million dollar question: Do they grant the PhD degree on their own, or is it just a referral advertisement for some university, which then grants the actual qualification?

    If it is the latter, it would be hard to accuse of them of wrongdoing. If they are claiming to be able to offer a PhD on their own, I would be the first person to say: run! I am just less inclined to jump to such radical conclusions. I will join the chorus of the naysayers after seeing the evidence for the claim. ;-)
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes, that's basically it. Not exactly as Tadj wrote. You have to do some work after the diploma. Your diploma may get you entry to second, or possibly final year, but you have to complete the degree through the accepting university. We have had other thread(s) on this school... https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/entrepeneurship-certification.53066/#post-518050 . It was offering diploma programs that would get people into degree programs at certain universities - "top-up" programs . However, it was unclear if they still had the association with the universities they had formerly done business with.

    The PhD's were mysterious then too. I never did find out where they came from. If they're real, I'm betting on Poland, Latvia or Costa Rica. Or maybe Nicaragua. Or a Swiss school with only Cantonal permission, or the former Soviet Union.... Wherever there are formerly good schools in desperate need of cash to stay alive - or "legal unaccredited" schools with the same need.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  12. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    Johann is right. You have to do some work. It might be the whole research phase, or coursework.

    The PhD is mysterious. The page does not feature any details. Maybe it was even withdrawn. Who knows?
     
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Call your bookies! Latvia's at 11 to 1, Kazakhstan's the favourite.
     
  14. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    There's been some Polish "doctoral tourism" over the years due to the fact that it is really difficult to obtain a real doctorate in Poland (not some postgraduate diploma-certificate substitute). Poland does not have professional doctorates, or other two-year wonders. It's a real academic degree with high-level statistics, a massive dissertation (not some project) and rigorous examinations. So, I wouldn't be betting on Poland. Even if some university tried to illegally offer the real deal degree through some shady partnerships, the dissertation and doctoral-granting procedure could be questioned years later and the degree would be immediately taken away. We've had such cases. If you're looking for the light stuff, don't even try it here!
     
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Wrong. there's ALL sorts of it going on. We had a recent thread where an established Polish University was offering foreigners distance DBA's - a degree that doesn't even exist in Poland. And another in which an established University made an agreement to co-award degrees with those of a somewhat controversial Swiss Cantonal school (i.e. legally able to award degrees but unrecognized by Swiss Federation). That ended rather quickly.

    It happens in all kinds of places - mostly where schools are desperate for money. Don't tell me it doesn't.

    https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/warsaw-management-university.56413/
    https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/abms-the-open-university-of-switzerland.46333/page-2#post-504600

    I note that University of Dąbrowa Górnicza has about SIXTY dual-award degree programs besides their short-lived arrangement with the Swiss school. That many? Always raises a flag!
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  16. SuperDuper

    SuperDuper New Member

    This specific "company" look QUITE similar to :
    https://www.lspm.org.uk (bad fame btw) . Isn't it worrying? I assume they are Indians ...again.

    But anyway, I wont lie. The name is interesting, I like it :p

    That top-up degree..I've seen it around some sites. It seems that very specific universities offer it and most of sites/uni pages advertise it as a result of a co-operation with those unis. So, I guess it's not a thing in England.

    Whats the point of that degree anyway? I mean why should someone spend 6-8k pounds on this which ~in my understanding~ has the same market value as a level 5-6 diploma in UK or an Associate degree in US. (Well at least thats how my country recognize some of them).
     
  17. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    I didn't say that it never happens in my country. The schools could be just as desperate for money here as in other places. Corruption can also be a problem. I just said that it's rare to see this type of partnership abuse with a PhD in Poland. There are a number of reasons for that. On another thread, I've already mentioned that the DBA does not count as an appropriate example of abuse, as it not a degree qualification in Poland. The law allows Polish institutions to grant one-year or two-year postgraduate business qualifications (MBA, DBA) in online format. There's nothing shady about it. It's completely out in the open and lawful! That's simply not the case with the PhD. A real Polish PhD can never be offered in 100 percent online format. (In fact, you can't even earn a Bachelor's or Master's in fully online format). Therefore, the shady doctoral degree partnerships of which you speak simply don't exist in anything that even remotely approaches the situation in other places in the world. Sorry. If an institution tried to offer a four-year Polish doctorate through some weird online outlet outside of Poland (or even an inappropriate Polish study center) , the degree would be rendered invalid as soon as the news got out. Unlike other places, Poland also punishes fake doctoral degree holders. I wondering why you've picked Poland as your bet for illegal partnerships.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  18. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    I am wondering...sorry for the mistake.
     
  19. SuperDuper

    SuperDuper New Member

  20. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    SuperDuper,

    None of these schools are degree mills. Most of them offer diplomas at specific levels. LSIB offers the MBA degree through partnership with British (Yeah, that's not Polish...for some of the board members) universities, although the degree-granting universities remains hidden, which would definitely make me cautious. Their level 6 or 7 diplomas can be really valuable though. They are highly respected in some places. But anyone who says that a regulated British qualification is "unaccredited" or "shady" is just ignorant. That's for sure.
     
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