So, you think regional accreditors have high standards

I think listing one's self as "Ph.D. A/B/D" is a bit misleading, especially the unusual way the ABD part is listed with slashes.

It is nice to see someone with degrees from a DEAC-accredited school was able to be admitted to a regionally accredited school.

I notice WOLI has a page for information on their "Faculty and Staff," yet none of either actually listed. There are four people listed as WOLI "Board Members," but their roles as board members is not made clear, nor is the function of the board itself. However, their operational titles are provided.

Still trying to figure out why this company is relevant to this discussion board....

 

I think the term "college" is problematic as used by WOLI. In much of the world, that term can either connote a secondary or tertiary school, but not a degree-granting one. MSA-CESS seems to cover just such a thing in its accreditation. Fine so far.

But WOLI operates in the United States. In this country, the term "college" almost exclusively refers to a degree-granting institution. There are exceptions, but they're almost always labeled with the occupation for which they prepare their students. Like "beauty college." To (a) tout its accreditation without making it clear that it applies only to non-degree-granting schools AND (b) to call one's self a "college" is a bit much.

This is complicated further by an evasive comment in the FAQ about the acceptability of credits at other accredited institutions, where no distinction is made that WOLI's accreditation isn't the same. Then it is further muddied when one example is used--University of Phoenix. This seems to indicate an articulation agreement between WOLI and UoP, as opposed to a success story exemplifying the transfer of credits to schools accredited as degree-granting institutions.

Perhaps this is a bit nit-picky of me. But after being called names by the proprietor and (still) wondering what this thing is doing on this board, I thought I'd bring them up.

 

Would it possible for Google's web crawler to pick up on this discussion of the Washington Online Learning Institute or Excel Education Systems, Inc.?

I don't know how such things work, but I would think they might find references to Washington Online Learning Institute or Excel Education Systems, Inc. and link this page to future search results.

But perhaps that was the intent of the good folks at Washington Online Learning Institute (WOLI) and Excel Education Systems, Inc.?

 

Some background for Rich, who was on sabbatical from DI during much of the Rod Clarkson affair.

• https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/high-school-diploma.55947/
• https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/opinions-about-a-new-online-college-with-state-approval-but-no-accreditation-yet.41072/page-4

And the best thread: One that links Rod, through his purchase of WOLI, to the attorney who previously owned WOLI – the same attorney that represented David Lady and William Loveland College in their joke of a losing lawsuit against DEAC:

• https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/fake-accreditors.32080/

Rod has a sordid background on DI at this point, ranging from shilling for his alleged schools to misrepresenting both their accreditation and his own degrees. For some additional background on his personality and politics, I'd recommend checking out Rod's twitter feed, which I cited in one these threads.

I wouldn't worry about Rod's insults - he has obviously done as much background research on Rich as he originally did on me. Which is not much.

 

rodmc said in an earlier thread: "I have made no false claims about my credentials. All of my degrees, including my doctoral work."

He does not have a doctorate. He claims an EdS (education specialist) designation from Northcentral University. This is not a doctorate, either. Northcentral explicitly states this, noting that the EdS is a way to get the same knowledge as an EdD, without having to do the dissertation.

This designation is unique to the field of education. Some argue that it is a "degree." I do not because the "specialist" degree doesn't exist in other disciplines. Its roots are in the need for teachers to get more college credits for salary and promotion purposes--what to do after the master's if you don't pursue a doctorate?

It seems misleading to call such work "doctoral" since it does not lead to the doctorate. "rodmc" did previously claim to be in the EdD program. Perhaps one is able to exit from that with an EdS?

rodmc said in an earlier thread: "But what's more, this isn’t about me. It's about the wonderful 50+ people (and growing) that work for Excel. All instructors and course designers have at least a master’s degree and many years of teaching and instructional design experience. FACT. 30% of our instructors hold Ph.D./Ed.D. FACT."

Perhaps. But the website certainly does not support these contentions. As I noted in an earlier post, the "Faculty/Staff" information page only lists 4 people in principal positions.

rodmc said in an earlier thread: "To the DI community, please forgive my vigorous response[....]"

"Vigorous" would be one way to describe it. "Churlish" would be another. "Immature" comes to mind as well. Or "Political" could work.

I see in this thread that I've already roasted this thing's claims regarding its faculty: https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/opinions-about-a-new-online-college-with-state-approval-but-no-accreditation-yet.41072/page-2

I don't hold grudges and I let go lightly, so I didn't realize the criticisms I lobbed at this thing previously, nor Mr Clarkson's lack of response. (Certainly he's entitled to ignore little ol' me.)

I see that the DEAC-accredited degree programs that were touted as impending by rodmc never came to pass.

I do see that in that particular thread, Mr Clarkson posts under two user names, rodmc and rodclarkson. I thought that was a violation of the TOS, but perhaps I am mistaken.

I feel like a cat toying with a mouse. Enough. Good day!

 

In an effort to be just a tiny bit fair, we do have a forum on high school education

https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?forums/high-school-education-via-distance-learning.16/

 

And, in order to be just a tiny bit fair to Hitler, he did have a knack for painting.

(Am I comparing Rod Clarkson to Hitler? Actually, no.)

To really be just a tiny bit fair, Rod may have a helpful product with his high school operation. We can accentuate the positive, but it's still outweighed by the negative. And even in the world of nontraditional education, there is no such thing as being "slightly pregnant."

 

Quite right. I should amend my point to question what this thing is doing outside of that forum. Thanks!

 

I see no reason to question that.

It's not the chewy caramel center that I find objectionable, it's the layers of icky candy coating.

 

Some incompetent rude person has necro'ed this ancient thread!

It was not even done artfully. It was a crude attempt to get some free attention. The moderators should possibly consider applying some kind of change to prevent this kind of bad behavior in the future. Do not allow reviving a thread over a couple years old? Warn the rude person about their bad behavior? Or just close this thread? Something else?

 

I think Steve had it right. (It inspired one of my posts in this thread.) Let Google handle it. This thread can't be good for what looks like a legitimate school with an intemperate proprietor.

 

Steve and Rich are going to be eating a lot of crow over the next 24-months, and I will be smiling big time. And Steve, you are indeed over the hill. You maintain MSA CESS is not credible accreditation. WOLI maintains post-secondary accreditation with MSA and NOT high school accreditation as you assert. You come off as an accreditation expert, and you are not. After 20-years of owning schools, I know the difference. WOLI is regionally accredited by MSA post-secondary division, accreditation recognized by the US Department of Education and CHEA. I guess you missed WOLI is listed by ED as an accredited post-secondary institution, https://ope.ed.gov/dapip/#/institution-profile/189431, and https://www.chea.org/washington-online-learning-institute. Neither ED nor CHEA recognizes or lists accredited high schools.

You make claims about being a sleazeball and a con-artist, etc. Where is your credible evidence to support this opinion? Excel schools are all A+ with the BBB, have a 4.7 rating with trust pilot, which is pretty good for serving 10,000+ students annually. The crux of the matter is you are an old guy likely living in a trailer with nothing better to do than make false statements. Argue all you like. Everything you have ever said about me has been 100% wrong, and I know you hate being wrong. The best part is with each passing year; you will find you were dead wrong, and the question will be, can your ego handle it? Probably not. Stay tuned everyone; this is going to be a fun next few years in online education. Regardless of low-class, irrelevant posters with no value to add, like Steve L, the Ed Tech. industry is about to explode with incredible advancements in online learning.

 

Actually, my reply was tactful, and then others, like Steve L, chime in and start slandering our brand. A good CEO will state the facts and fight off bad actors. I understand this is a good old boys club, but I have every right to report the facts. If someone finds an old post with misinformation about one of our schools, I have every right to correct the record. First Amendment, right?

 

Rod,

Actually a good CEO does not bother with the negative talk of others.

The reputation of WOLI should come with positive talk, good programs, strong administration and time. Not what you are doing.

On your your website your pushing the regional thing too hard. It was stated about 6 times. In fact, that’s all I really got out of it, not to mention the MSA logos.

When I see a front page, I want to know what the programs are like and how they are delivered and what the certificate can do for me.

Michael

 

I never said that MSA CESS is not credible – in fact, it is quite credible. But it is a high school-level accreditation and, while it could be used for postsecondary schools, it can not be used for colleges. And as I have pointed out earlier in this thread, you claim that WOLI is your college division.

Well, Rod, I’m delighted that you posted these two links for the second time. While I prefer not to repeat myself, I’m also delighted to note that both of your links list your accreditation as “Middle States Commission on Secondary Schools” (emphasis added). Yepper, your links, not mine.

As they say in the law, res ipsa loquitur – the thing speaks for itself.

Another point bears repeating here, one that I have brought up in other, non-related threads over the years: The mark of a truly great con artist is that he or she always sticks to the con. Always. Even in the face of damning evidence, a professional con artist willl never back down. They may be caught dead to rights, but they will still maintain the con.

And this is why Rod is truly a great con artist. He avoids answering questions directly, he contains to maintain obviously false claims, and he resorts to ad hominem attacks even when credible evidence is presented against him.

Ya gotta love it . . .

 

I am not any kind of expert on accreditation but I believe that technically this statement is correct. However, I think it's also correct to say that neither the DOE nor CHEA recognizes or lists accredited colleges/universities either. This task is delegated to the six Regional Accreditors and they do all that recognizing, listing, and accrediting stuff. I'd also point out that each of the Regional Accreditors (which are recognized by the DOE and CHEA) have divisions which explicitly recognize, list and otherwise accredit high schools (and even elementary schools). And so it can be said that DOE and CHEA do recognize high schools, they just do it indirectly through the Regional Accreditors. I think I got that right. Check it out

http://www.ed.gov/international/usnei/us/accred-school.doc

 

I'll leave Steve's response to him. But I am curious what it is that I will be "eating a lot of crow about" in the next 2 years? I've made zero forward-looking statements or predictions regarding you or your operation, and I see you haven't noted any mistakes about what I've posted regarding it all at this point.

Good luck with your smiling.

 

Wrong. The First Amendment's protections on speech reference restrictions on the government. This isn't that. It is why this board may enforce its Terms of Service and not be in violation of the First Amendment.

Your school seems to have many robust offerings. Are one of them in civics?

 

I don't think you can make that inference. Yes, CHEA and the DoE recognize the regional accreditors, but that doesn't mean everything they do is within CHEA's or DoE's scope. These accreditors do not all-together fall under the authority of these two organizations.

Under "regional accreditation," CHEA only mentions the Middle States Commission on Higher Education. Its mission statement only includes higher education: Degree-granting institutions which offer one or more postsecondary educational programs, including those offered via distance education, of at least one academic year in length at the Associate's or higher level in Delaware, the District of Columbia, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and other geographical areas outside the United States in which the Commission conducts accrediting activities. (2019)

On the other hand, the USDoE does list the Middle States Commission on Secondary Schools: Scope of recognition: the accreditation of institutions with postsecondary, non-degree granting career and technology programs in Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. Virgin Islands to include the accreditation of postsecondary, non-degree granting institutions that offer all or part of their educational programs via distance education modalities.

It excludes secondary education from the scope of its recognition of MSCSS. I think this is because of Title IV.

You can find this about the MSCSS on CHEA: https://www.chea.org/middle-states-commission-secondary-schools

There you will see that MSCSS is recognized by the USDoE, but not CHEA, as an accreditor of postsecondary schools.

So it looks like neither organization bothers with the part of the MSCSS scope that deals with high schools.

 

Mmmm. OK. So I guess that Rod was right. At least a little bit. About that one piece. I guess.