The Big 3 & MOOCs

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Kizmet, Sep 7, 2019.

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  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    We have started to see more "MOOC-based" degrees popping up recently. Coursera, EdX and any number of other developers producing courses designed to equal/replace more traditional classroom-based courses. Then they get put together in a package, a little like that new MBA from Boston University. Then we have the Big 3. They vary a bit from each other but they are basically credit aggregators. Portfolio assessment as well but I've got the idea that it less popular and less common. So these are 2 of the kinds of alt-degrees we see (there are 1 or 2 others are well). So what do you think about these MMOC-based degree programs? Are they just as valid as anything coming out of the Big 3? Are they better? Are they simply different ways of accomplishing the same goal? How does anyone know which style is best for them?
     
  2. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    I think the MOOC degrees are better than the Big Three (TESU, EC, COSC). Here are the reasons why I believe so:
    1) On-demand video base gives the students a better learning platform
    2) Integrating with social discussion forum from the student all over the world
    3) Some programs even have synchronous webcam lectures (i.e.: iMBA from University of Illinois Urbana Champaign)
    4) Brand name reputation

    Unless has been changed, but my experience with TESU for one course was boring. You pay for a syllabus, ebook, and communication with the mentor. It seems like independent study except you get credit for it.

    I would love to see more undergraduate degrees through MOOC. I don't know why the University of Pennsylvania has not deployed LPS' Bachelor of Arts and Science program through MOOC since its Master of Information Technology is on MOOC.
     
  3. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I can't see any reasonable argument for MOOC degrees being "worse" than the Big 3. The MOOC degrees are just online courses from those schools, with curriculum developed by their faculty. If I went onto Coursera and did something through Duke, I've done something through Duke. I took Duke coursework presented by Duke faculty and have a credential from Duke.

    That said, I don't think that is necessarily better or worse than credit aggregation. It's, indirectly, one of the reasons I don't support a free for all Masters program. The Masters is for depth. The bachelors, however, is largely about breadth. That is usually accomplished just by making you take courses across different departments. The physics major is forced to take a lit course and maybe a philosophy course etc. With the Big 3 you're gathering all of that book learnin' from various sources and I think that's good and valid.

    I don't think that we should just, say, "Well you ran your own business for 23 years, here's a degree." But there is a strong case to be made that such a person should have some coursework credited for that experience and I think that applies to a number of skills and experiences you can gather outside of a classroom. If you're a professional trainer then, yeah, maybe we let you do a presentation and give you the three credits for public speaking. If you can write a computer program then, sure, let's give you some credits for computer programming.

    Like I said, not really better or worse. Just different. It's like trying to ask which is better, pizza or tacos? They're both good in different ways and for different people at different times.
     
  4. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    So I've divided these degree programs into four types. It's probably not the only way to do but you've got to start somewhere.
    1) This is the older correspondence type programs. The University of London is the best known modern version. Maybe Penn Foster too. You pay your money and a big package arrives in the mail. You study on your own and then take an exam at the end.
    2) This is the most common type these days. Internet-based asynchronous lectures, readings, discussion board.
    3) credit aggregators such as the Big 3.
    4) MOOC-based programs
    So there's something for everyone, covering a variety of learning styles.
     
  5. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I like the types, my only quibble is that number 3, credit aggregators, are the ones that stand out. 1 & 2 are delivery methods. Three is the type of school itself.

    You can transfer traditional classroom coursework, asynchronous and correspondence work into types 1 & 2 (and also, the unstated, regular classroom setting). The third, on the other hand is not a delivery method. Now, we can say number three is portfolio assessment as that is an actual means of earning credit. Where you take those credits and how you get to a degree is another matter entirely.

    Though I would suggest that a potential criticism of the Big Three is that if you earn a B.S. in Accounting at, say, Syracuse University, the university is basically saying "Hey, this person earned this degree because they gained knowledge from our esteemed faculty and were taught according to the ways we teach."

    With the Big 3, I can get a B.S. in Accounting with credits from a dozen different schools. Or I could have completed all of that coursework at Harvard but dropped out in my last semester. Or it could all be from the University of Phoenix. So a B.S. from TESU means something different for each student. That might be fine for the student but it does make its reputation a bit more nebulous in the eyes of employers, for whatever that is worth. Maybe that's less of an issue to an accountant but I can understand a hiring manager being somewhat skeptical of certain other disciplines.
     
  6. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    If the frequency with which you read about it here on DI is any indicator, Kizmet is quite correct in pointing out that portfolio assessment (also called PLA, or prior learning assessment) is less popular and less common than the other methods.

    However, for those who can pull it off, it’s both cost efficient and time effective. When I did my B.A. in humanities at then-TESC, for my 120 total credits I did 98 credits by portfolio, tested out of 16 credits, and transferred in only six prior course credits. The whole ball of wax took one year and 10 months from soup to nuts, and if I knew more about the system I could have pulled off even more credits and in less time by portfolio.

    In fact, for the first 10 years of DI’s existence, a guide I wrote on portfolios was on the front page of this forum. However, as sanantone rightly pointed out a while back, that guide ultimately became quite outdated, and I haven’t bothered keeping up with any changes in TESU’s PLA requirements. (I'm probably dating myself, but I graduated from TESC 32 years ago.)

    So why don’t more people go for portfolio credits? Well, over the years before I matriculated at TESC, my diet was almost 100% nonfiction and included areas such as social sciences, political science, theology, communications, and other light bedtime reading. (In fact, my B.A. advisor once told me that I did something done by no one else he knew – if I did not know a subject through prior learning, I would go out and learn that subject, then challenge it for credit by PLA.) Today’s illiterate generation tends to read more in the realm of porn and comic books combined with heavy doses of video games – none of which translate well into college credit (although one can now even find challengeable college courses in all three areas).

    For those who are literate in college-related subjects, however (and are able to write in an articulate manner), portfolio challenges are still one of the easiest ways of earning credits, quite literally fast and cheap.
     
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    So here’s another sort of issue. Neuhaus raised the issue above. We know there are edtech companies selling degree/cert packages to universities. For the first time, universities are offering (selling) courses that have not been developed by their own faculty. Does that even matter? At all? Doesn’t this effectively begin the blur the line that separates one school from another? You are not earning a degree from the school, it’s from Coursera ( or whoever). A lot of the faculty are adjuncts with a less solid connection to the school (hired guns). It’s a kind of homogenization of curriculum. And what’s the role of accreditors in the creation of this package. Do they have a larger or smaller impact?
     
  8. It's the same for testing out though - many don't know about it, and of those that have heard of it, many also don't feel it's "for them" or are suspicious.

    I got my Excelsior BS in General Business degree close to 15 years ago now and did 120 credit hours in around 15 months which was relatively leisurely compared to the original BAin4Weeks plan. Even if PLA was an option it was quicker for me to just churn out exams.
     
  9. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    We have some threads directly related to the testing out process but they don't get a lot of action. Most people seem to prefer type #2. I', in that category myself as I've found that the structure of the course helps to keep me on task. I generally am keeping a few balls in the air all the time and so it's easier for me to carve out the time for predictable periods each week. Still, there are enough people who like the testing out/credit aggregator method that they are keeping 3 universities busy.
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    For the most part, I suspect most of what we think of as category 4 is now really part of category 2, since a lot of them are neither massive nor open.
     
  11. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    To be fair, the coursework is open to the masses. I can go in and have access to all of the course materials on any course on any MOOC platform. But if I want the credit or a verified certificate, I have to pay.

    When MIT broke into this world and didn't offer certificates or degrees or anything, it was still novel. You got to watch the lectures and read the notes. You, essentially, got to audit the course. We can still do that. The original value proposition never really involved degrees being "open" just the available knowledge.
     

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